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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Registered: 05/25/06
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5780083 - 06/22/06 10:42 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yea, the local cops around here are all pretty chill with firearm carry. I carry one in the bar most of the time, anytime that I'm there and it's closed I'm carrying, and they know about it.


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Unions are the bastions of the mediocre. - luvdemshrooms


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5780097 - 06/22/06 10:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Probably, yes. An armed society is a polite society. In an armed society, people don't jump out of their cars screaming and yelling and beating on your hood because they think you cut them off.




...because if they did you'd shoot them?

That, I guess, is the problem. I don't trust people. I think most people are idiots. I don't think people should get shot for being rude, and I don't trust people with the ability to instantly kill me if I do something they feel threatened by.

All that anti-government stuff is a crock of shit. Unless you give citizens the right to own weaponry that is insanely dangerous, to the extent of any private citizen with sufficient funds to kill hundreds of thousands of people unstoppably, it's a pointless fantasy to suppose that the right to own guns has anything to do with the ability to stage a popular uprising.

And, just for kicks, why is it that you think people should be allowed to own battle tanks, but not thermonuclear weapons?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5780125 - 06/22/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Yea, the local cops around here are all pretty chill with firearm carry.





me and a guy I worked with did a lot of shooting together, we'd clean the guns at
work because it was insanely slow, they walked in on us and the conversation
started, for a bunch os small town cops they were really cool about shit, I bought
a couple pistols from one of the guys.


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5780127 - 06/22/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Your example seems reasonably convincing, but it's totally outside of my field of experience. To be honest, the issues of gun control in the USA and the UK are extremely different. I'm not sure you could introduce effective gun control into a society with such a deeply ingrained gun culture and such high rates of gun ownership as America unless it was over the very long term. It's not something I can speak about.

But I would find it extraordinarily difficult to believe crime rates would drop or remain static if levels of gun ownership and gun legislation in scotland were similar to those in the states.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: OJK]
    #5780149 - 06/22/06 11:04 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Australia has enacted stringent gun control legislation in the last ten years, and the rate of violent crime has not decreased. Obviously gun crimes have gone down, but those have just been replaced with crimes committed with other weapons.

Like you, I believe it all depends on the cultural and social mindset of the country in question. I believe that regardless of the level of gun control in the US, violent crimes will continue to be higher than that of most European countries.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: OJK]
    #5780174 - 06/22/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
That, I guess, is the problem. I don't trust people. I think most people are idiots. I don't think people should get shot for being rude, and I don't trust people with the ability to instantly kill me if I do something they feel threatened by.




I dont think people should be rude...

most people that own and carry firearms are sensible people, theres a handful
that you'll hear about on the evening news, that handful is less than .01% of
the gun owners, most of them own illegaly, the few shootings I've heard about
from people that were 'law abiding citizens' were usualy in self defense or in
the defense of anothers life. the shootings I've heard about that occur in malls
and office buildings were always by people that were 'unstable' according to
the courts, these were people that aquired their through less than legal means


Quote:

All that anti-government stuff is a crock of shit. Unless you give citizens the right to own weaponry that is insanely dangerous, to the extent of any private citizen with sufficient funds to kill hundreds of thousands of people unstoppably, it's a pointless fantasy to suppose that the right to own guns has anything to do with the ability to stage a popular uprising.




have you actualy looked at americas government, you think that many arent afraid
of what could happen, that those paranoids may be right? do you honestly believe
that the majority of US soldiers will fire upon a 'militia' army thats trying
to oust a tyrant, the soldiers would be shooting their cousins, brothers, sons
and friends, the US can have all the tanks in the world but without people to
man them they are simply scrap metal.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: OJK]
    #5780190 - 06/22/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
I don't really get the argument that guns make people safer.

If everyone carried a firearm at all times, would the world be a safer place?

I for one wouldn't feel very safe if everyone in a 50 meter radius had the ability to instantly kill me.



Sure, the world would probably be safer if no one had guns, but we can't turn the clock back that far. Guns exist, and can be sold and even made on the black market. I'd rather have a world where everyone carries guns than one where only violent criminals do.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: OJK]
    #5780252 - 06/22/06 11:39 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
Your example seems reasonably convincing, but it's totally outside of my field of experience. To be honest, the issues of gun control in the USA and the UK are extremely different.




I agree, as the UK primarily used guns for sporting events and hunting over the
last 2 hundred years unlike the US where until the last hundred there was little
in the lines of law enforcement, there were bandits around every corner, indians
to kill as well as the odd cougar or bear that wanted to nibble your ankle, most
people here in the south still hunt, we're limited as to when we can and what we
can kill but for a lot of people, it's a neccisity, guns are tools to a
responsible owner, they arent just for a fighting against government or killing
thugs in the street and intimidating dickheads in traffic, those tend to be
the lessor uses.


Quote:

But I would find it extraordinarily difficult to believe crime rates would drop or remain static if levels of gun ownership and gun legislation in scotland were similar to those in the states.




I read the BBC news, I keep up with some topics over your way, one is crime,
look at wales and england for instance, the BBC reports that violent crimes
are up 6% but that it;s not actualy an increase in crime, the use of real
firearms has dropped but crimes committed with knives and airguns is on the
increase, now the way I view it isnt the way most would, it's not a weapon of
choice issue in as much as it's the individual committing the crimes, remove
knives, guns and bombs from the equasion and rocks and sticks become the next
weapon

england is calling for an airgun ban for kids, here in the states thats our
first exposure to a firearm, if it's given to a child to use unsupervised then
there will always be irresponsibility with any sort of weapons, I was taught
from a young age a few basics, first, respect for individuals and their rights,
second respect for weapons and the dangers they pose, mom taught me that even
with an air rifle that it's not to be pointed at another individual unless you
intend to kill them because there is the possibility it could happen.

With respect for others comes respect for their property, how am I showing you
respect if I'm shooting the windows out of your car or house with a BB gun?
Mom would beat the piss out of me for that sort of behavior, my lessons started
when I was about 5, she took my brother and I out to a field and taught us
how to shoot safely and with respect for everything, I had to skin and eat the
squirrel I shot, I had to thank it for it's life. I wish everyone were taught
similarly because in all the years I've owned a gun, I've not killed anyone
you;d notice.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Silversoul]
    #5780264 - 06/22/06 11:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Sure, the world would probably be safer if no one had guns





didnt seem that safe when all people had were knives and swords, people were
killing each other with rocks and sticks long before the first blade was made
think maybe the problem isnt with the guns but instead with the neanderthal
mentality still retained in some people to this day?

at least with a gun I probably wont suffer for 3 days before I die.


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InvisibleGnuBobo
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5780584 - 06/22/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Microcosmatrix said:
Yeah, since mutually assured destruction worked so well for nukes... :rolleyes:




Actually it did.  WTF are you alluding to?


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Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!


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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: daimyo]
    #5780911 - 06/22/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I wonder why we have a political forum, :rolleyes:



That is where this bullshit belongs!!!!!!!


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Atheist Chat


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5780928 - 06/22/06 03:56 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

When guns are outlawed criminals gain a huge upper hand.

You see, they have guns, guns that they obtained illegally. You, the law-abiding citizen, do not have a gun. Guess who's fucked? You are.

I never understood how people actually beleive outlawing guns would reduce crime. Criminals don't give two shits if it was illegal to buy the handgun or submachine gun that they subsequently used to mug you. What they do care about is how much easier it was for them after the government disarmed all the potential victims.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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