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Loph grafts of mine (updated 3-3-14)
    #19633716 -

Okay so I have been getting into cacti over the passed year or so. I have collected a few specimens. I have some seeds I ordered online. I got some Lophophora W.  I have germinated a few of them. I tried to do a graft to a rooted small san pedro tip. The graft scion is turning brown. I was wondering if this is sign of the graft failing? This is my first graft attempt. I have all said lophophora's in an aquarium on its side. Which I sealed with plastic for humidity. I have two 8" aquarium bulbs on top of the container and a heating pad under it. I keep it an optimal temperature inside of this terrarium. It is day 2 of the 'graft' and I have noticed the discoloration. Is this normal in a graft? It is still green just it is turning an ugly darker color mixed with a brown hue. I don't have any pereskiopsis, or means to obtain them. I know my san pedro was growing I seen it get slightly taller in the passed month or so it has been in the terrarium. And of course the seedling was growing. So I am unsure if this is a problem or if I may just be over worrying.

Edited by lol98xlol98 (03/03/14 08:26 PM)

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Re: Noob questions about grafting [Re: lol98xlol98]
    #19633820 -

Can you talk a little more about the procedure you used? IME a scion quickly turning colors like brown or orange often means that the blade was not clean and probably introduced biological contamination.

What I do with my blades is dip them in 99% isopropyl alcohol, then set them on fire to flame sterilize, then wait for them to cool. Alcohol that remains on the blade can cause problems (e.g. dark green dehydrated scions.) The same is true (but the symptoms are different, e.g. an orangish burned appearance on the cut surface) if you were to use peroxide to sanitize the blade and don't rinse it off, but that causes the blades to rust more rapidly so I don't use it for blades.

This is the style of blades I usually use for seedling grafts.


Other possible sources of contamination (in general, not necessarily in your case) include:
- your hands. Wash them well with hot water and soap before you begin, and you can also sanitize with alcohol every so often but wait for it to dry .
- the surface of the seedling or the stock. If you want to be really thorough you can give each a soak in 3% peroxide followed by a rinse with water that was previously boiled, but generally you can get decent survival without worrying about this.
- the air or your breath. I'm not paranoid enough to worry about trying to do grafts in a sterile airspace, but you do want to minimize the amount of time the cut surfaces are exposed to the air (for this reason and also to prevent drying of the cut surfaces.) For the stock you can do this by making an initial cut, then making another cut a couple mm down and leaving that on as a 'lid' until you're ready to put on the scion. For the scion, you can leave it stuck to the blade between making the cut and transferring it to the stock.

Another strategy to avoid cut surfaces drying is to wet the blade with sterile water after it was sterilized/sanitized and dried off.

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Re: Noob questions about grafting [Re: psi]
    #19634748 -

I used a blade which was new. I cleaned the oil off of it. (most new blades come with oils on them) it was a standard trapezoidal shape box cutter razor.
I used a 90%iso solution to clean the blade. (I was considering hand sanitizer would this be possible to use for sterilization? The alcohol based gels.)
I washed my hands with surgical scrub before I began.
I had to grab the seedling between my fingers as it was wanting to slide off the blade.

I did use the 'slice on top' method to keep my graft surface moist on the stock.
I accidentally squished the seedling initially when slightly pushing down to make sure I had no air trapped between the vascular rings. So I feel it may be bruising. But I am leaning more towards contamination myself.

So I was wondering how peroxide would affect my cacti. I have to water it down to a 3% mixture and then I can clean the cacti with this solution?

I will keep close watch on this graft attempt. I figured I would know by tomorrow if this is a fail or what not.

I took the top 5 inches which I rooted last year of a narrowing t. pach' sliced off just enough of the top to see the rings (right below the new growth) these were not really fibrous and thick, as this was new growth I had cut into. This 'top' was in a growing state, I waited until I could see it growing before even considering this graft. I have been watering the grafting stock (T.Pach') this week, so I know it was not thirsty. I keep it nice and warm inside of my terrarium , and it is humid from watering my cacti. I do vent it every day to prevent from unwanted bacterial growth, I also keep a mental note of how the air inside smells. Because you can tell when things are going wrong by smell when it comes to infections.

I followed the tek I found here pretty much.

http://www.mushmush.nl/?page=begin\methods\grafting_cacti

I do not know if cross site linking like this is against forums rules. I read them but did not notice anything, so I am linking the guide I went by. If this is not appropriate for the forum I will edit this upon anyone telling me otherwise.

I have pretty much written this one seedling off as a loss already, but some of the things I have found online say that it is not uncommon for successful grafts to change colors. I don't know what to think personally. I lean towards it having failed. I have three more seedlings I could work with. All of which have started forming shape and hairs, around 50-60 days old. I could work with them. I am trying to get a flower as soon as possible I love these sacred plants and do not wish to consume them ever. I have no plans to de-graft it until I absolutely have to if I ever have to.





Here are my seedlings, I did two different environments, the ones in the hermit crab tank are way more dark green, and were exposed to less light through the hermit crab cage top which is slitted. However the ones which I had in a ziploc container exposed to full light through seran wrap after germination-and blue ziploc container lid before-are a light lime green, beautifully colored.



Looking at the scion now, after getting home. I think it is a total loss and not worth it. I feel as if I should probably cut it off now to save my T.Pach' would you agree? Or should I wait it out a day or two and keep close eye on it? (dont mind the slug munch in the stock lol slugs love my cacti... unless I leave them a beer trap :smile: Then they love the deadly salty beer mwahahahahahaha)


--------------------
~Namaste~


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Re: Noob questions about grafting [Re: lol98xlol98]
    #19634886 -

Yeah those box cutter blades are good, that's what I would use for Trichocereus stock too. The scraper style blades I use for Pereskiopsis.

Definitely do not worry about removing the scion to save the stock. Even if the scion were to succumb to infection the stock would be fine. From what I see though, the scion appears to be doing fine. Just leave it alone and hopefully you will see growth soon.

The peroxide I use comes in a 3 percent solution from the pharmacy. Often I'll do the soak and rinse treatment with seedlings but not bother with the stock plants. Not sure if it makes a big difference to survival but it doesn't seem to hurt them anyway (as long as it's rinsed off by the time you cut.) I figure they are so close to the soil that you never know what's on them.

I find with grafting it's good to get a lot of seeds going so you don't have to worry too much about possible losses.

Regarding the site you linked, I think it may not be allowed because the info page is at a commercial site. Linking non-commercial sites is fine though generally speaking.  I may be remembering wrong but I think that site belongs to Una, a member here who I don't think posts here any more but has a lot of old threads on grafting.

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Re: Noob questions about grafting [Re: psi]
    #19635040 -

I agree with you totally. I have tried to be as neat and germ freak about this graft as possible. But I did notice a tiny dot of dirt get on my scions cut, which I used sterilized tweezers to remove. I haven't ever done a graft before. And the dirt.. well even though I sterilized it when I put them in the container it does not mean it is now. I do regularly(every two weeks)take everything out of the terrarium and wipe down the glass with Lysol concentrate to disinfect. I did not have any latex gloves when I grabbed my scion, so I was worried about that the possibility of infection would have been greater with that and the speck of dirt which touched the wound. Like I said this was day two, day one it was a bright green the turn of color over night kind of scared me half to death! :o I love my little cacti I wish it the best.

Thank you for your time and patience with this noob grafter :smile:
I have de-grafted plenty of times for specimens. Never grafted before though.


(edit)~~~

So I attempted my second graft tonight. Lophophora W. onto dragonfruit. Yes I know this is an odd choice of grafting stock, but hey those 10 cent "retail home and garden store about to throw in the trash" saves in the fall have to be good for something right?
This is a dragonfruit I de-grafted one of those ruby leeches from last year in the fall. I removed a pup from it at the base, cut down to the white vascular ring material-leaving a slice on top to keep it moist. Sliced my seedling and quickly put it on top of the ring. Slightly right of where it would have lined up perfectly. (as you can see from the picture you can see the small section of white vascular fibers to the left of the small peyote)
I have been regularly watering my dragonfruit and it had started to grow a pup so I know it wants to grow. I hope this second graft takes. I think my first graft may fail. I am noticing a light pink coloration of the tissues where the scion meets stock. I believe this may be early indication of contamination. However maybe not. I will hope the best for that one. I do believe I did this one properly and 100% sanitary. I monitored every variable of this process to minute details this time. Maybe I overlooked something last time, but I was quite sure I did not. However I was more strict on myself about sanitary grafting this time. Hope for the best!

:smile:






(edit 3/3/14)

Poor lil san pedro has the black spot crap goin on :frown: I sterilized a blade and cut out the black.
(I really though this first graft may die anyhow I just dont want my san pedro to die fuck the seedling) (So I decided to give it a do over.)

Here's the pics of the graft

Beautifully done I hope






However! My second graft attempt is damn beautiful, no discoloration what so ever so far, and it appears to be doing well. It is only one day behind the first graft. The first one turned colors on me on day 2-3 This one is just as beautiful as it was when I put it on there.







Edited by lol98xlol98 (03/03/14 08:28 PM)

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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