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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Need help with anti-depressants!
    #1947565 - 09/24/03 01:00 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

So going on some research and the assumption that I know my own head pretty well, I have diagnosed myself manic depressive. I have felt like this since I was younger than I can remember, and as soon as I was old enough I started self medicating with good old maryjane. It works ok but now I have just moved to a new part of the country and I don't know where to score! Long story short I'm having really bad mood swings/anxiety/depression and I am considering seeing a shrink. Now I've never been to a shrink bfore but from what I can tell the prefered method of treatment is to jack yer ass full of happy pills. Apx 65-70 percent of the people I know are already on some kind of anti-depressant and are urging me to try it. So what say the shroomerites? Can I get a show of hands for anti-depressants? Who has tried what? What works, and what are some good alternatives to medication? I have been wanting to do something to make myself feel better for a long time now, but I'm worried about taking a pill that no one is even sure what it will do to me? Thanks folks, I hope you can help!

-Dan K.


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Invisibleflatline
psycho + logical

Registered: 08/02/03
Posts: 120
Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: simplemachine]
    #1947579 - 09/24/03 01:05 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i've tried a whole bunch of them ... zoloft, effexor, lexapro, wellbutrin ... they all blow. i mean, i can feel them affecting my body the first couple days after but then i don't really feel different.
i think it's me though ... some stupid pill isn't going to make me happy and that's why i'm not really a pro anti-depressant med person


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OfflineFine_Citizen
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Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: simplemachine]
    #1947585 - 09/24/03 01:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

It's been proven in alot of studies that exercise helps depression- you may want to give that a try. Alot of the meds they prescribe for manic depression have bad side effects... It's worth talking to a shrink at the very least to learn about your options.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: simplemachine]
    #1947658 - 09/24/03 01:31 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

most (if not all) antidepressants are only useful to those who have some sort of serotonin deficiency.  a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (ssri, the most commonly prescribed antidepressants, including prozac, zoloft, celexa, and paxil) inhibits the reuptake of serotonin by the various 5-ht receptors.  a mono amine oxidase inhibitor (maoi, less commonly prescribed now) lower the levels of mono amine oxidase (a chemical that destroys serotonin), which in turn raises serotonin levels.  if you're feeling depressed its best to first establish that there is no other reason for your depression before you start taking antidepressants.  visiting a psychologist may help you establish what is causing your depression.  however, ime, most psychologists are quick to prescribe these antidepressants and dont seem to really focus on how you're feeling.  if your depression isnt a result of a serotonin defficiency, its entirely possible (although not always the case) that these antidepressants will not do much for you.  imo, its much better to overcome depression without antidepressants, as i see them as a temporary shortcut for some people.  i was on celexa for about 6 months and found that it did make me feel better to some extent.  however, when i thought i was feeling better, i decided to stop taking them and was right back where i started (even after the few weeks of "withdrawal depression").  about a month after dropping the celexa, i had a 4gram mushroom trip that let me look at my life in a different way.  during this trip i realized a number of things that i was doing wrong which in turn were making me depressed.  im not saying that you necessarily need to have a mushroom trip to figure these things out, it just helped me.  in essence, im simply trying to say that taking shortcuts in life will get you nowhere.  i guarantee that if you overcome this depression without antidepressants you'll feel much better, assuming that the depression is not related to some sort of serotonin deficiency.  good luck, and i hope you overcome this depression soon :grin: 


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OfflineCleverName
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Registered: 08/26/02
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Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: simplemachine]
    #1947822 - 09/24/03 02:09 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

try changing your diet, eat clean...veggys & fruits...very little sugar...and exercise at least an hour or more a day. spend more time outdoors getting fresh air. then, tialk to your shrink, theres nothing wrong with taking pills for a few months, with pyscotheriapy


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: CleverName]
    #1948741 - 09/24/03 06:46 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Cool beans thanks for posting...I agree wholeheartedly with the holistic aproach. I did yoga for an hour today for the first time in years and feel much better. My friends are all lazy and eat too much sugar so I will pass along the good advice! Thanks again I feel much better just knowing I have the support of this community. So peace be with all your cool asses!


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Anonymous #1

Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: simplemachine]
    #1950185 - 09/25/03 02:52 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

anti depressants suck...I quit paxil approx a month ago.....I had the worst anxiety,depression and anger for at least 3 weeks.....its finally outta my system now I think....and I'm glad I went through with quiting....I think they overprescibe that shit and if weed works for you just wait till you find some......trust me the physical side effects and possible withdrawl depending on which anti depressant you take are not worth it....if however you decide too.....stay away from paxil


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: ]
    #1950683 - 09/25/03 11:17 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Hey stupaod...have ya heard of a band called Instant Death? They got a song called paxil is fer assholes. hehehe

The main reason I am anxious about talking to a psych is that I KNOW they over perscribe that shit! Even if I don't have a seretonin problem (is there a test they can give you to determine that?) I'll bet they would still pump me fulla drugs. 1 more question...What affects yer seretonin levels? I'm guessing diet and exersize has something to do with it, but I've never heard anything about those exersize studies leading in an increase of seretonin in the brain, just that it is as effective as zoloft at reliving depression. COol guys thanks again...


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Anonymous #1

Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: simplemachine]
    #1952102 - 09/25/03 08:30 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

the thing to remember about going to see a psychologist is that they can overprescribe all they want, that doesnt mean you have to agree with it or take the drugs. if they suggest anti-depressants, instead of just taking a script, talk to them about it and tell them that you dont feel like it will solve your problems. also, all i know about exercise is that it releases endorphins, i dont know if endorphins have any effect on serotonin, but theyre what gives people "runners high" and why people who are severely injured (break a bone or something) dont feel it for a little while.


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: ]
    #1952165 - 09/25/03 08:53 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iamhimheisme said:
the thing to remember about going to see a psychologist is that they can overprescribe all they want,




You mean a psychiatrist. Psychologists can't prescribe medication(exept for a clinical trial in New Mex.) You have to have a medical license to prescribe drugs. Usually if a psychologist thinks you need medication they will make a recomendation to a psychiatrist who will prescribe it(sometimes without seeing you).

There is a movement underway to give limited presciption rights to psychologists. That is what they are looking at in the NM clinical trial.


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Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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Anonymous #1

Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: chinacat72]
    #1952682 - 09/25/03 11:54 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

right right, my mistake, ive only seen a psychologist but theyve prescribed meds through my primary physician(sp?)


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Offlinemonoamine
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Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
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Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: chinacat72]
    #1952830 - 09/26/03 12:41 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I would actually trust my psychologist prescribing drugs more than I do my psychiatrist.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: monoamine]
    #1953654 - 09/26/03 09:02 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah I would to. In the study in NM the psychologists undergo some specialized medical training. Since i'm working now on my PhD. I hope that this becomes commen in other states. It takes 9-10 years to become a clinical psychologist and alot of that time is spent studying the human body,mind and pharmacology. Granted the training is nowere near extensive than an MD, but they should be able to precribe a limited scope of drugs(psychoactive's) with some specialized training. I also believe that they would be less likly to overprescribe then psychiatrists. Most psychiatrists I have been around use medication as their first line of defense. Psychologists are more likly to try non-medical therapuetic approaches first if the patient seems like it could benifit.

Also this movement underway is being opposed by psychiatrists. They say psychologists are not qualified to prescribe since they don't have a MD. Really they just know that they will lose money with the easy referals. Referals from psychologists are gravy money for them because they don't have to analyze or diagnose the patient since the psychologist already has. They can spend 30 seconds writing the script or if their thourough mabye do a 10 min. physical and collect their $$$$. They don't have to spend hours in contact with the patient to diagnose there problems because its already done.


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Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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Anonymous #1

Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: chinacat72]
    #1954523 - 09/26/03 03:35 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

chinacat72 said:
I also believe that they would be less likly to overprescribe then psychiatrists. Most psychiatrists I have been around use medication as their first line of defense. Psychologists are more likly to try non-medical therapuetic approaches first if the patient seems like it could benifit.




This may be true, but they cant prescribe anything on their own. Ive been to 5 psychologists for depression and drug abuse and 4/5 of them have suggested meds after a visit or two. however, i realize that since ive only visited 5 different psychologists this ratio doesnt really mean anything. Despite the fact that this may not be true, i still wonder what would happen if psychologists were allowed to prescribe meds. Perhaps theyre more willing to try therapeutic methods because they cant prescribe. Id be interested to see some statistics on psychologists' methods. For example, the number of patients on meds at their psychologists request or something. Although, maybe my experience with psychologists is a rarity. Has anyone else had similar experiences to mine?


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: ]
    #1955155 - 09/26/03 06:45 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If a person is suffering from a problem that can be helped with medication then psychologist have no problem recomending it. In a good % of patients that are seen by psychologist are put on medication.
That said psychologist have more faith in the possibilitys of therapy in treating some disorders. The psychiatrists at the clinic would just immediatly put them on medication and if it didn't work they would send them down the hall to a psychologist for therapy unless they were trained in it themselves. In 4 years when I have my PhD. and if I decide to be be a therapist I would have no problem recomending putting someone on medication if they needed it. I think I would be more hesitant though than most psychiatrists I know. I think even if I could prescribe I would be more hesitant. Most psychiatrist are true believers in the biological approach to mental illness and believe you treat mental disorders at the biological level with medication. Psychologists believe in the biological approach, but also believe in the therapeutic approach or a combination of both.

My opinions come from doing a 6 month internship at a mental health clinic. Its just my observations from my experiances and it surly doesn't mean all psychologist and psychiatrist act like that. There are some psychiatrists who practice psychotherapy and use it frequently. I'm sure theres psychologists that have almost all their patients put on medicine without being sure their problem can't be treated with therapy. Usually they still give the therapy though since thats how they get there$$$.


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Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: chinacat72]
    #1955534 - 09/26/03 09:07 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

All I know is that I'm a lot more comfortable talking to my psychologist than my psychiatrist. It got to the point where communication was so difficult with my doc that I think he was misinterpreting things that I said. He would take everything I said litterally,when I was just trying to use some highly descrpitive language to show him how I really felt. It's like all that med training makes docs cold and way too analytical.While this works well with diseases of the body when the task at hand is a little more objective,I don't think it is always a great approach for something so complex and subjective as the mind. Like most psychiatrists know the ins and outs of all the drugs and the anatomy and brain mechanisms and everything,but a lot of them have no idea of how these drugs feel or what is really going on inside the person's head it seems like.

I one day I just had enough,and I told my doc basically what I said above. I must have agreed with me on some level,because he said he would hand over more power to my shrink and let him make drug recommendations. (My psychologist is very knowledgable about these things it seems.)
Since them I've been doing pretty well.

I think what they're doing in NM is a great idea.While these psycologists wouldn't have all the medical training,with the special qualifications in place,they would have the all the info they need specifically for the task at hand (I don't really give a shit if my mental health professional can diagnose my flu.) As long as they have good pharm training,a decent neurological training,and to be able to recognize serious physical symptoms from drugs and possible neurological conditions that would need serious physical interventions,it would be fine. (Like if they saw a person with a rash on Lamictal,they would know something is wrong)It's not like the psychiatrist takes lithium blood levels and stuff himself anyway. They are not neurologists and I think a ton of that med knowledge isn't applicable anyway.

I used to really buy into all this biological stuff and I saw psycholigists as Freudian bufoons (some still are),but it's crucial for a person undergoing treatment to get the whole 9- bio medical,pyschological,and sociological.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Edited by monoamine (09/26/03 09:30 PM)


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: monoamine]
    #1955619 - 09/26/03 09:58 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

That was an very insightful post!  :thumbup: :smile:

I really do hope NM works out and it spreads. The psychologists involved are receiving extra medical training to help them be prepared for any kind of knowlege they need on drug interactions and physiological care that comes with prescribing meds. This in addition to the massive amount of knowlege they already have from their graduate and undergraduate studys. Granted its not near as exstensive as a MD, but were just talking about a limited scope of medications compared to what a MD needs to know about. 


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: ]
    #1955827 - 09/26/03 11:43 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know what it is like in America, but in Australia, psychologists have more training in human behaviour and the mind (at least 4 yrs)whereas psychiatrists only have their specialist knowledge (1 yr) which they gain after doing a general medical degree. And their year of study in psychiatry is mainly from a biological perspective - drugs, thier interactions and the associated biology. Psychologists are aware of the causes of psychological illness including complex interactions of past events, social and environmental factors and cognition and trained in counselling and therapeutic interventions. A psychiatrist may or may not be trained in counselling and therapeutic interventions. The reason psychologist recommend drugs is because people with moderate to severe depression may be unable to carry out therapy effectively and benefit from it until their depression has lifted to a degree. A severly depressed person can be very tunnel visioned. Mild to moderate depression can be treated with therapy alone.

Psychiatrists used to think there was such thing as a purely biological depression - no clear trigger and many biological symptoms - low appetite, poor sleep, agitation, slowed thinking, etc. This has been challenged only recently - so it is not surprising that you have this idea. They think now most depressions are associated with some concurrent environmental stressors even the ones with a more biological appearance but some people are less aware of the triggers than others. Also mood effects bran chemical levels and vice versa so there is a biological correlate of chemical change associated with all depressions.

Simplemache - different antidepressants work for different people - some people can feel completely normal and happy on an antidepressant and not get any side effects and the same antidepressant may not work for the next person. This is because we all have different chemical make ups. It is not an exact science either - often a person has to try one or two before finding the right one. If you are lucky you'll get an effective one with minimal side effects straight off. I'll post a table of the characteristics of different antidepressants.


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: enotake2]
    #1956082 - 09/27/03 01:32 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

enotake2 said:
They think now most depressions are associated with some concurrent environmental stressors even the ones with a more biological appearance but some people are less aware of the triggers than others.





if others are anything like me, its not necessarily that they're not aware of the triggers/causes but rather that they're in denial about them.

i had another point but i cant remember, i need to go to bed, its been a long night.


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Need help with anti-depressants! [Re: simplemachine]
    #1956362 - 09/27/03 03:54 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I used to work for a Professor of psychiatry who made this table for GPs to use with patients to help them pick an antidepressant. It's good because you can see how effective each antidepressant is for relieving depression and anxiety and the relative level of side effects.



Edit: These are antidepressants available in Australia by the way. Most of them should also be available overseas - though the brand names may be different. The chemical names will be the same though.


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


Edited by enotake2 (09/27/03 03:59 AM)


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