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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1911457 -

Quote:
Strumpling said:
some of us didn't vote for anybody, though.. which I guess is just as stupid :wink: 


Why is expending effort on a futile act stupid?  I have NEVER participated in any electoral process in which my vote made a difference in the outcome* (I've voted in every election except one local election since I was eighteen, I am now forty-five).  There have been several votes where my wishes prevailed at the ballot box, but the vote was thwarted later by legal maneuverings.  Democracy is merely a safety valve to keep the masses mollified. 


* By this I mean that if I would have changed my vote, that the 'other side' would have won.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: Autonomous]
    #1911491 -

yeah I was thinking about the upcoming pres election and realized that it doesnt matter how I vote or if I vote, because Bush is garanteed my state's electoral votes hands down. He has strong support here and there's no possible way he will lose this state.

looks like I'm not voting this time either

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1911493 -

You can still vote on the ballot measures. Even if your vote is worthless, I still like to do it to let my voice be heard.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1911514 -

yes.
I like to know that I at least stand in opinion. Or in some instances, stand in opposition.


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_______________________________________
CSC

Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

Off Topic Website

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: Autonomous]
    #1911663 -

Good post.

As far as question 20 goes, it doesn't seem the US has made any serious attempt to capture Bin laden. I suppose leaving him out there as a bogeyman is more valuable to the "War on an abstract noun" than having the guy in jail or dead.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1912315 -

you should pick a democratic (or other) candidate
that you support and hit the pavement.

do some volunteer work.

print that article out and put it in every fucking
mailbox in the state.

don't be a quitter, americans aren't quitters.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: Autonomous]
    #1914437 -

Autonomous said:
afoaf said:
all candidates should get equal access to federally mandated
time on radio and television.



The government will set the standards regarding who is determined to be a 'serious' candidate and hence what opinions will be heard - I guarantee it. I especially dislike the concept where taxpayer money goes to fund campaigns in the name of 'campaign finance reform.' If ever there was a formula to maintain the status quo, this is it.



riiiight, so the money standard is more egalitarian? you've just got an axe to grind with the academy.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: Autonomous]
    #1915203 -

To answer your original questions, I don't know. But most of the allegations are trumped up excuses for increasing suspicion on the administration. And most of the answers will include the word 'coincidence'.

Admittedly there should be more information available, perhaps, in cases like the black boxes but most of the questions sound like they came from Don Quixote.

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: ]
    #1915466 -

I wouldn't frame this article as quixotic in any sense.

he's not chasing windmills here or championing some bizarre
conspiracy theory. instead, he seems merely to be
promoting discussion on the matter by presenting logical
and thus far unanswered questions about that dire day.

I sent the author an email, commending him for a great
perspective. He was kind enough to reply and mentioned
that he had gotten more than 200 responses at last count,
10-1 positive which, he mentioned, was about 10x as many
replies as he's gotten for any of his other rilling articles.

apparentely, the philly abc affiliate is doing a story on it
with him tonite. if anyone is out there, keep an eye out for
it, I'd be interested to see it.

you can surely throw the coincidence card at one or two
oddities, but when you look at all that has occured across
the board and note that there are glaring oddities, inconsitencies
and other curiousities that argument begins to loose traction.

if it looks like bullshit and smells like bullshit, chances are...


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: ]
    #1915552 -

Quote:
no one knows where the alleged mastermind of the attack is, and none of his accomplices has been convicted of any crime. We're not even sure if the 19 people identified by the U.S. government as the suicide hijackers are really the right guys.


In the Massoui case recently, the prosecution tried to call some sand beast to thewitness stand who is the "alleged mastermind" of the attacks to vouch that Massoui wasn't the 20th hijacker. The "alleged mastermind" is in US custody. As for trying them, we'll get to it eventually. I couldn't care less if they rotted in a cell. As for not being sure, well, we did identify 19 people that are viewed on videotape at the airport that went to Al-Q terrorist training camps, had their pilot classes paid for by Al-Q slush funds / wire transfers.


As for a possible Bush/Saudi/Osama connection; Why would bush allow ANYTHING relating to the attacks to be released that would support this connnection? If he was working with the Saudis (who are very anti-Jew), why not blame the Jews? Also, wouldn't the Jews that work for Bush get a bit upset that he was hobnobbing with people that want their destruction?


Full of shit, if you ask me. "Why didn't this " and "if if if". Hindsite is always 20/20, and insanity sometimes helps that. I"ll be sitting in my aluminum foil house waiting for the aliens to kidnap me again.


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In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: ]
    #1915560 -

Mr_Mushrooms said:
To answer your original questions, I don't know. But most of the allegations are trumped up excuses for increasing suspicion on the administration. And most of the answers will include the word 'coincidence'.

Admittedly there should be more information available, perhaps, in cases like the black boxes but most of the questions sound like they came from Don Quixote.



I have to agree. If you could present some strong tie, or something besides coincidence, that would be great. It's funny how, during WACO and WaterGate and Vince Foster shooting himself in the head with a gun that wasn't fired and with no powder marks on his hand, you probably weren't picking up on these issues to lamblast the administration with. Now that it's a conservative, southern man, hes part of Al Quada all of the sudden ? I thinks not. This sounds liek something that Micheal Moore put together.


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In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: lysergic]
    #1916396 -

You aren't really looking for answers, since the questions have much more value in what they insinuate. The michael Moore reference is very a propos.

Things like 9/11 will always occur. A group of people will attack a group that they idealogically oppose. The brave men who hijacked and flew those planes into those buildings were doing what they believed was the best course of action. They had the conviction to carry through a plan that meant certain death. If even 10% of americans had 50% of that conviction, this country would be a wonderful place. Unfortunately, we are so divided along imaginary lines that we are too busy arguing about the meaningless.

The difference between liberal and conservative, democrat and republican is so small now that it doesnt matter who is president, or who controls congress. Someone with truly new ideas cannot be elected because people would be to afraid of something different. You see, what we have now is working so well, why fix it if it ain't broke?

There will always be a bad guy to rally against. Used to be the russians, now we have Osama. It looks like that mentality is going to expand to the entire middle east. I personally believe that the next cold war will be between industry and the environmentalists. Either way, it has always been the same. Both sides always serve the same master.

Either way, worry not. This country cannot endure long on the present course. The apathy can only go so far. Most of us are going to live long enough to see the economy fall apart. I'm actually looking forward to it.



--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: Enlil]
    #1916426 -

Enlil said:
Things like 9/11 will always occur. A group of people will attack a group that they idealogically oppose. The brave men who hijacked and flew those planes into those buildings were doing what they believed was the best course of action.


Killing those whom you disagree with hardly seems like bravery to me. The people who were killed were innocents. I call the men who hijacked those planes and those who supported them cowards and scum.

Quote:
They had the conviction to carry through a plan that meant certain death. If even 10% of americans had 50% of that conviction, this country would be a wonderful place.


Just look where that kind of "conviction" has gotten the middle east. What exactly were they fighting for again and what did the victims have to do with it?



--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: z@z.com]
    #1916470 -

What about our soldiers killing Iragis? Is that bravery? Or is that cowardice?

We invade countries on a whim, and many more than 3000 die. We are better armed and better equipped, and we bomb night and day. Is that bravery?

You can shout the party line all you want, but in the end...we are all part of a country that exploits the world. We can stop it...we don't...this makes all of us a part of it.

Evil succeeds when the good do nothing.

Whatever the hell that means.



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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: Enlil]
    #1916550 -

Terrorism and war are two very different things. We gave the Iraqi's every opportunity to surrender. We dropped millions of fliers asking them to give up. And many of them did. The people in those two towers were not given that opportunity. And I'm not yelling down any party line.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: z@z.com]
    #1916566 -

From this side it is war, from the other side, we are the terrorists.

I am sure the flyer said, "Hello, we are invading your country because we do not approve of the way your leader treats you...and uh...we heard from a guy that you may have some bad stuff. Please surrender, or we will kill you"

And if you were walking down the street, and a flyer fell at your feet that said, "The nation of Islam is here to liberate you from your infidel leaders, surrender or die"...how would you react? Would that make it somehow alright that you were killed?



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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: Enlil]
    #1916620 -

We didn't target Iraqi citizenry. Or to put it in other terms, the sand beasts used every method at their disposal, they put 100% into the 9/11 attacks. If we are against every single sand beas, and we had put our 100% into it, revved up the war machine full speed, we could annhilate the entire middle east enough times over that it wouldn't be an issue ever again. But we are moral, and we don't. Sand beasts aren't, and they would, if given a chance.


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In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: lysergic]
    #1916636 -

Where is the distinction? If we were invaded by another country, every single one of us would be a combatant...you are acting like war is about two armies meeting in a field. This is about our soldiers entering the cities, dissasembling the government, and putting another in place. That is the classic definition of invasion. Every citizen in iraq is affected...EVERY SINGLE ONE...DIRECTLY...

It is sad that so many people died in the WTC. It is sad that so many people lost loved ones, but it is even more sad to invade an entire nation, killing at least 3 times as many civilians. Especially in retaliation for somthing that had NOTHING to do with Iraq.

I am sure that in your mind, the entire middle east is all a bunch of "sand beasts". That is enough in your mind to connect every one of them to the WTC attacks....

Sadly, to many muslims, we are a bunch of infidels...

So we go to war...

And kill more people...

And the world is a much better place for it...



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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: Enlil]
    #1916760 -

Quote:
But we are moral, and we don't. Sand beasts aren't, and they would, if given a chance.


I think this shows what (or WHO) needs to be annihilated.


--------------------
There is no dark side of the moon really... Matter of fact, it's all dark.

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Re: Why Don't We Have Answers To These Questions? [Re: MusicSucks]
    #1916762 -

I think the only thing it shows is the attitude of an individual.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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