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InvisibletrendalM
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US goes into Pakistan...
    #2280383 - 01/28/04 12:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=st...lqaedaoffensive

U.S. plans Al Qaeda offensive
By Christine Spolar Tribune foreign correspondent

The Bush administration, deeply concerned about recent assassination attempts against Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf and a resurgence of Taliban forces in neighboring Afghanistan (news - web sites), is preparing a U.S. military offensive that would reach inside Pakistan with the goal of destroying Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s Al Qaeda network, military sources said.

U.S. Central Command is assembling a team of military intelligence officers that would be posted in Pakistan ahead of the operation, according to sources familiar with details of the plan and internal military communications. The sources spoke on the condition they not be identified.


As now envisioned, the offensive would involve Special Operations forces, Army Rangers and Army ground troops, sources said. A Navy aircraft carrier would be deployed in the Arabian Sea.

Referred to in internal Pentagon (news - web sites) messages as the "spring offensive," the operation would be driven by certain undisclosed events in Pakistan and across the region, sources said. A source familiar with details of the plan said this is "not like a contingency plan for North Korea (news - web sites), something that sits on a shelf. This planning is like planning for Iraq (news - web sites). They want this plan to be executable, now."


The Defense Department declined to comment on the planned offensive or its details.


Such an operation almost certainly would demand the cooperation of Musharraf, who previously has allowed only a small number of U.S. Special Operations forces to work alongside Pakistani troops in the semi-autonomous tribal areas. A military source in Washington said last week, "We are told we're going into Pakistan with Musharraf's help."


Yet a large-scale offensive by U.S. forces within the nuclear-armed Islamic republic could be political dynamite for Musharraf.


The army general, who took power in a bloodless coup in 1999, has come under growing political pressure from Islamic parties, and his cooperation with U.S. anti-terrorism efforts is widely unpopular among average Pakistanis. Nor can Musharraf count on the loyalty of all of Pakistan's armed forces or its intelligence agency, members of which helped set up and maintain the Taliban in Afghanistan and are suspected of ties to militant Islamic groups.


Speaking on Friday at the World Economic Forum (news - web sites) in Davos, Switzerland, Musharraf again rejected the need for U.S. forces to enter Pakistan to search for bin Laden.


"That is not a possibility at all," Musharraf said. "It's a very sensitive issue."


The U.S. military is operating under the belief that, despite his recent statements, Musharraf's thinking has changed, sources said. Musharraf said last week that bin Laden and his followers likely were hiding in the mountains along the Afghan border. He also said "we are reasonably sure that it is Al Qaeda" who was behind the two attempts on his life.


An offensive into Pakistan to pursue Al Qaeda would be in keeping with President Bush (news - web sites)'s vow to strike wherever and whenever the United States feels threatened and to pursue terrorist elements to the end.


"The best way to defend America . . . is to stay on the offensive and find these killers, one by one," Bush said last week. "We're going to stay on the hunt, which requires good intelligence, good cooperation, good participation with friends and allies around the world."


Musharraf's vulnerability is of deep concern to U.S. officials. If he were killed, Bush administration officials say, it is unlikely that any successor would be as willing to work toward U.S. goals to eliminate Islamic extremists.


The U.S. military plan is characterized within the Pentagon as "a big effort" in the next year. Military analysts had previously judged that a bold move against Islamic extremists and bin Laden, in particular, was more likely to happen in spring 2005.


A series of planning orders--referred to in military jargon as warning orders--for the offensive were issued in recent weeks. The deadline for key planning factors to be detailed by the U.S. military was Jan. 21.


Sources said the plan against Al Qaeda would be driven by events in the region rather than set deadlines and that delays could occur. But military sources said the push for this spring appeared to be triggered by the assassination attempts on Musharraf, both of which came in December, and, to some extent, the capture of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) in Iraq.





Hussein was captured after eight months of an intense military and intelligence effort on the ground in Iraq. Pentagon and administration officials, buoyed by that success, believe a similar determined effort could work in Pakistan and lead to the capture or killing of bin Laden, said sources familiar with the planning.

Thousands of U.S. forces would be involved, as well as Pakistani troops, planners said. Some of the 10,600 U.S. troops now in Afghanistan would be shifted to the border region as part of regular troop movements; some would be deployed within Pakistan.

"Before we were constrained by the border. Musharraf did not want that. Now we are told we're going into Pakistan with Musharraf's help," a well-placed military source said.

Internal Pentagon communications indicate the U.S. offensive would rely on several areas of operation, including Afghanistan, Pakistan and other countries in the region.

The U.S. also is weighing how and if Iran can be persuaded, through direct or indirect channels, to lend help, according to internal Pentagon communications. The U.S. is eager to avoid a repeat of the Afghan war in 2001, when some Al Qaeda fighters were believed to have escaped into Iran.

Military planners said the offensive would not require a significant increase in U.S. troops in South Asia. But Special Operations forces that shifted from Afghanistan to Iraq in 2003 will return.

"We don't have enough forces but we can rely on proxy forces in that area," said a military source, referring to Pakistani troops. "This is designed to go after the Taliban and everybody connected with it."


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: trendal]
    #2280392 - 01/28/04 12:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ok...great.

Musharraf is already under intense pressure by his own people with reguards to his aiding the US in their "war on terror".

Does anyone else see another hornet's nest being stirred up if the US lands a bunch of troops in Pakistan and an aircraft carrier off the coast???


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Anonymous

Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: trendal]
    #2280416 - 01/28/04 12:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

and they've got the bomb too. we live in a dangerous world, eh?


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: trendal]
    #2280678 - 01/28/04 02:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ahhh...political grandstanding at its grandest...they could have done it in 2001..if they didnt need OBL as an ace-in-the-hole for the 2004 election...i hope the democratic candidates have enough sense to make this point...

EDIT: maybe they did catch him in 2001..and have been holding him as an AITH ever since..so they could pretend to catch him at the right time...


Edited by Annapurna1 (01/28/04 05:08 PM)


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: trendal]
    #2280864 - 01/28/04 03:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

this is a clear example of the "talk hard, and poke em' with a big stick polocy"


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: trendal]
    #2280877 - 01/28/04 03:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

this is a clear example of the "speak loudly, and poke em' with a big stick polocy"

now we are going into an unstable country that has a nuclear aersenal, bordering a rival country with a nuclear arsenal.

this is really going to blow up in our faces in a big way


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: trendal]
    #2280902 - 01/28/04 03:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

deary god,

not world war 3, not yet..

and zippoz, the speak loudly and poke em with a big stick policy was never meant to be used like this. we're poking with a fucking pitchfork not a stick


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: trendal]
    #2280941 - 01/28/04 03:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

deeply concerned about recent assassination attempts against Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf

WTF? Musharraf is a torturing mass murderer who would be vastly improved by sudden death.

What excuse do the neocons have for supporting this evil bastard? (Or is it simply another case of as long as you do as Bush says you can kill and torture as many as you want)

Human Rights Watch pointed out in its letter that military agencies have frequently tortured and harassed political opponents, critical journalists, and former government officials. The past four years have also seen a rise in activity by extremist religious groups and an increase in sectarian killings in Pakistan, in part due to the Musharraf government's policy of marginalizing mainstream opposition political groups. Opposition legislators have told Human Rights Watch they have been beaten, harassed and subjected to blackmail for opposing Musharraf's policies.

http://www.hrw.org/press/2003/10/pakistan101003.htm


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OfflineIndianadan
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: trendal]
    #2281063 - 01/28/04 04:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It sounds like it need's to be done. We left that war unfinished there. The way I feel as long as they want to kill us Americans. We have every right to go on the offensive. The only reason were there is because they want to kill us. If they did not want to kill Americans we would be at home. I think President Pervez Musharraf want's to cooperate with the US because he knows what will happen if he doesn't. He would be out of power and we would have control of his country.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: Indianadan]
    #2281179 - 01/28/04 04:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

as long as they want to?
well guess what- a ton of Americans want to kill a ton of every other country

Are you saying that Pakistan somehow wants to kill Americans? That makes no sense. If some people in another country don't like you, you can go blow them up and take their land? Oh wait, if it seems like they have a weapon and don't like you -- then it's ok?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: Indianadan]
    #2281244 - 01/28/04 04:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Your line of reasoning (which fails to take CAUSALITY into account) is the reason we are in this "terrorism" mess in the first place!!!

Sure...let's say your American Army goes over to Pakistan and kicks some ass (hey...that's what you're good at, right?)... Well the people over there don't appreciate that kind of thing so much...

How would you like it if a foreign army came to the USA, with the support of a president you already don't like too much, and started killing American citizens because they (the foreign army) didn't like them? Under the excuse, of course, of "protecting" the foreing army's people.

How would you feel?

How would you react?


The US will end up doing this no matter what anyone says. When they do...just watch the people who weren't terrorists start flocking to the terror camps to repay the gold 'ol US of A.

"Stirring up a hornets nest" doesn't begin to describe it.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: Indianadan]
    #2281512 - 01/28/04 06:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Indianadan said:
The way I feel as long as they want to kill us Americans. We have every right to go on the offensive. 




...wow...i don't know what to say, but im sure it'd be agaisnt forum rules... :nonono:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineIndianadan
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: Indianadan]
    #2281601 - 01/28/04 07:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Indianadan said:
He would be out of power and we would have control of his country.




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OfflineIndianadan
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: trendal]
    #2281620 - 01/28/04 07:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I am sorry if I ruffled some tail feathers here. I did not mean we dont like Pakistan we greatly appreciate the help of President Pervez Musharraf for his help on war on terror. I think it is important to the united states security to weed out Al Qaeda. It is not Pakistan we are at war with. It is Al Qaeda that wants to kill americans any way they can. I feel we have every right to defend ourselves from someone who wants to kill us. Afganistan is alot better place now. When I said quote "I think President Pervez Musharraf want's to cooperate with the US because he knows what will happen if he doesn't. He would be out of power and we would have control of his country. " Was not how I really wanted to come across I would like to take that back.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: Indianadan]
    #2281787 - 01/28/04 09:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Indianadan said:
  I think it is important to the united states security to weed out Al Qaeda. It is Al Qaeda  that wants to kill americans any way they can. I feel we have every right to defend ourselves from someone who wants to kill us. 




Make sure to check under your bed before you sleep tonight... :lol:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineIndianadan
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: Azmodeus]
    #2282922 - 01/29/04 06:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I dont check under my bed at night because of the american armed forces defending this country.


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Invisiblethescientist
Registered: 03/10/02
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: trendal]
    #2284951 - 01/29/04 08:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

NEXT STOP: CHINA

A pre-emptive nuclear strike seems neccessary, they are a threat.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: Indianadan]
    #2285030 - 01/29/04 08:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I dont check under my bed at night because of the american armed forces defending this country.

Replace "defending this country" with "stirring up shit" and you'll have a better picture :smirk:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: US goes into Pakistan... [Re: Indianadan]
    #2286780 - 01/30/04 12:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Indianadan said:
I dont check under my bed at night because of the american armed forces defending this country.




"Man does not want to be free, only to feel safe." :shake:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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