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OfflineEllis Dee
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Why don't liberals want to stop voter fraud?
    #509464 - 01/03/02 11:03 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

cut and pasted
________________________________________________
Too Easy to Steal
Why don't liberals want to stop voter fraud?
Tuesday, December 11, 2001 12:01 a.m. EST

It took a year after the Florida fiasco, but Congress is finally moving to overhaul the nation's antiquated election laws, dimpled chads and all. The vital issue now is whether the bills will also curb the growing, but mostly overlooked, problem of voter fraud.

The House is scheduled to vote tomorrow on a bipartisan bill that makes useful strides. But Senate negotiations are still stumbling, because the same liberal activists who are most bitter about the Florida 2000 outcome now object to doing much of anything about ballot manipulation.

Some chicanery is endemic to politics, and the problem is hard to quantify. But cheating may be more common now than at any time since the first Mayor Daley patrolled Chicago precincts. In particular, cheaters got a huge new opening when Congress passed the 1993 "Motor Voter" bill. That "reform"--bad law is always packaged as reform--was designed to make it easier for people to vote by allowing them to register when they applied for their driver's license. Some eight million people have registered this way.

But here's the big con: Only about 5% of motor-voter registrants usually vote, which means there's a large pool of nonvoters whose names can be used to make mischief. Most states don't require photo IDs at polling booths; this makes it easy to vote in someone else's name, either in person or by absentee ballot, especially because Motor Voter hinders states from weeding out the dead and departed.

The anecdotal fraud evidence has been building. A Pakistani man linked to two of the September 11 hijackers has been indicted for illegally registering to vote in North Carolina. A Saudi man detained for similar questioning voted last year in Colorado after registering under Motor Voter. Two noncitizens testified in court recently that a city councilwoman in Compton, California, registered them to vote and then had staffers direct them on casting absentee ballots.
Fraud Central may be San Francisco. California Secretary of State Bill Jones recently conducted a probe after the city's acting elections director claimed that 3,600 votes cast in the 2000 election had somehow been unaccounted for, though the vote had still been certified by his predecessor as accurate. Mr. Jones reviewed 21 randomly selected precincts and found an average discrepancy of nine percentage points between the number of ballots that individual precincts reported in last year's election and the number that the city reported.

San Francisco's performance wasn't any better in this November's election. A few days ago 240 uncounted ballots were found "jammed" in voting machines, and the Coast Guard discovered the tops of eight ballot boxes floating in the bay. Local politicians couldn't care less, no doubt because they do well under the current system. A spokesman says Mayor Willie Brown is "much more concerned about the future than the past." For his part, Governor Gray Davis vetoed $10 million last July for a campaign to educate voters on how to use election equipment.

The good news is that Congress, of all places, is being more responsible. Our federalist instincts naturally tend toward local control. But in the wake of the national trauma caused by Florida, there's nothing wrong with Congress providing money and incentive to states to buy new voting machines, compile better registration lists and educate voters about ballots.

In the bipartisan House bill, Democrat Steny Hoyer of Maryland won the right for people who aren't on election rolls but claim to be eligible to cast provisional ballots; officials would later assess the validity of those votes. But Republican Bob Ney of Ohio won a clarification of Motor Voter that allows states to purge consistent nonvoters who don't respond to inquiries. We'd do more, but at least it's something.

The problem is the Senate, where Democrat Chris Dodd and Republican Kit Bond have been negotiating for months. Senator Dodd says he wants to make it "easy to vote and very difficult to commit fraud," but he's had to fight some in his own party (and even his own staff) to craft a balanced bill.
He must also handle the "gang of 14," a claque of liberal interest groups (People for the American Way, the AFL-CIO) that claim any ID requirement to vote would somehow have a "chilling effect" and "be tantamount to requiring them to pay a poll tax." This is simply bizarre, as if San Francisco today resembles Selma, Alabama, in the 1950s.

The proposed reforms are things that liberals used to like when they were fighting Tammany Hall; maybe they object now because they are the new Tammany. One reform would make those who plan vote fraud subject to prosecution. Another would ask voters who register by mail to show up in person for their first vote, with an ID or a utility bill, rather than cast an absentee ballot. "We want everyone who votes to be a real person," says Senator Bond, who represents St. Louis, where 28% of all registered voters can't be located by the U.S. Postal Service.

The integrity of the ballot strikes us as a lot more central to democracy than the impossible dream of "campaign finance reform." If liberals are sincere in wanting every vote to count, they should also want to make sure that phony votes don't.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Why don't liberals want to stop voter fraud? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509466 - 01/03/02 11:04 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Why don't liberals want to stop voter fraud?
Because liberals command the loyalty of three important constituencies:

1. Convicted felons.

2. Illegal aliens.

3. Civic-minded dead people.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineJammer
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Re: Why don't liberals want to stop voter fraud? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509469 - 01/03/02 11:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

We do.

The stuff that went on in Florida after the last Presidential election was an embaressment for many of us however.

I feel that the party should of taken there hat off to Bush much earlier.


--------------------
>>Jammer>>


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OfflineJammer
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Re: Why don't liberals want to stop voter fraud? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509472 - 01/03/02 11:10 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I guess that you have sumed up our party!

yep. glad to see that you dont listien to much Rush Limbargh.

lol

LIBERIALY SPEAKING: Hey man... I want to free the prisoners... Then lets bring in more illeagle aliens so they can under bid my job...

And naturally, I hates civic minded people...

Yea thats what were saying... HELOOO??? ANYONE THERE?


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>>Jammer>>


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Why don't liberals want to stop voter fraud? [Re: Jammer]
    #509511 - 01/03/02 11:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Jammer, your party doesn't hold your ideals. They want as much 3rd world immigration as possible because poor immigrants almost always vote democrat.

BTW, I haven't listened to Rush in years. I don't really care for his economic agenda. I thought he went deaf and off the air anyways...

And read my post more carefully, being supported by civic minded dead people is really a good thing, right? I guess so since they almost always vote democrat...


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineJammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!

Registered: 11/05/00
Posts: 3,998
Loc: (God's Country) - USA
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Why don't liberals want to stop voter fraud? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509520 - 01/03/02 11:59 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Glad to hear that you dont listien to Rush.

I must say that your right. I should read your posts/replies more carefully before I respond. I have caught a few things that you said AFTER I replied... So, for this I do apologise.

However the liberials of the Democaratic party that you speak off, I believe more or less are the "non voters". The ones that get the attention of the Rebulicans are often the ones that do the Repulicans a favor and are too busy having random sex to vote. The ones that vote DONT act this way.

(Hey, I see the moderats point of view usally too)


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>>Jammer>>


Edited by Jammer (01/04/02 12:02 AM)


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InvisibleCaptain Jack
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Registered: 01/24/00
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Re: Why don't liberals want to stop voter fraud? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509710 - 01/04/02 03:00 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I don't see the supposed direct connection between "motor voter" bills and "voter fraud".

And how does Motor Voter hinder "states from weeding out the dead and departed"? It's implying that somehow people show up to get a driver's license after they're dead? Right.

PS - I appreciate the "copied and pasted" disclaimer, but can you please include author, publication, a link, etc, when pasting articles? I like to know the source of what I'm reading.


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-
Captain Jack has been hailed as a brilliant scholar, discredited as a brilliant fraud, and mistaken for a much taller man on several occasions.


Edited by Captain Jack (01/04/02 03:06 AM)


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Why don't liberals want to stop voter fraud? [Re: Captain Jack]
    #509722 - 01/04/02 03:17 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

"PS - I appreciate the "copied and pasted" disclaimer, but can you please include author, publication, a link, etc, when pasting articles? I like to know the source of what I'm reading."

I was wondering the same thing. Check the old posts on alt.politics if you want to find it...

Motor voter laws make it too easy for resident aliens to register to vote before they're citizens.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleisis
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Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 484
Re: Why don't liberals want to stop voter fraud? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509737 - 01/04/02 03:47 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I agree. We need to stop voter fraud. Period. I think they are moving way to slow on this. Voter fraud as well as voting reform period. At the rate Florida is going, the new voting system will not be in place for the congressional election. I just can't believe they are pussy footing around like they are. They did pass reform, but they are taking their sweet time doing it. Voter fraud is a huge problem here in Florida. It is amazing how dead people can vote. So I agree. I'm a liberal and I think every vote should be counted, and every effort should be made to make sure phony votes do not count.


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