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question on grain
    #1904023 -

If i'm not going to spawn, or lay a jar of colinized rye but fruit it in cake form, how many more days should i let it colonize in the jar before i birth it.
I'm doing it this way due to all my casing being contaminated by Trich. I just wont to be able to fruit something, is that to much to ask :frown: 

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Re: question on grain [Re: Ganoderma]
    #1904052 -

14-35 days depending on 10 or more varibles.


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"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:

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Re: question on grain [Re: TM]
    #1904113 -

can you expand on that T.M.

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Re: question on grain [Re: Ganoderma]
    #1904119 -

Grain moisture content, spore viability, strain, temps, gas exchange, grain volume, etc, etc, etc.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:

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Re: question on grain [Re: TM]
    #1904135 -

spores aren't really an issue right now since all grain is spawned from grain masters and some times from agar.
jars are usually full colonized with in 7-10 day of spawing, but if i used more spawn i'm sure i could push it to 5-6 days

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Re: question on grain [Re: Ganoderma]
    #1904154 -

Well, in that case, just wait 'til the mycelium on the grain is RUBBERY.

Probably 17-20 days.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:

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Re: question on grain [Re: Ganoderma]
    #1904163 -

You'll need to use well expanded rye berries to accomplish what you're attempting. I suggest adding a gram of gypsum to your jars to make 'em shakable.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:

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Re: question on grain [Re: TM]
    #1904171 -

Rubbery? like as in solid?
and when you say 17-20 days, days old? days longer from full colinization?

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Re: question on grain [Re: Ganoderma]
    #1904178 -

Yes, rubbery as in one solid block.
17-20 days TOTAL from noc with agar or grain.
About 7 days from full colonization, maybe a few more.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:

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Re: question on grain [Re: TM]
    #1904193 -

I was figuring that i'd need to wait for several day but wasn't really sure, thanks.

have you ever fruited any thing off of a "solid grain" cake?

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Re: question on grain [Re: Ganoderma]
    #1904204 -

Yes, but coated it with verm like a PF cake.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:

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Re: question on grain [Re: TM]
    #1904208 -

Full colonization from a grain transfer should complete within 7-14 days, but only you can see them and make that decision. Once you see the jar is fully colonized, wait about 5-10 days longer before birth if fruiting as cakes. During this time you can expose them to light, and it will speed up the pinning process. The extra time allows the mycelium to further digest nutrients and build up hyphal formations that will eventually lead to pins. You can even wait until you have pins in the jar before birthing (they can come quite fast invitro), but birth immediately to avoid distortion from them being packed in the jar.

A grain cake will fruit very poorly due to low moisture content. While you will get mushrooms if you have very high humidity, abort count will be high, and the mushrooms will be small in size. A grain cake is a poor performer compared to a PF cake despite increased nutrient content of the grain. I have tried introducing vermiculite into the grain at the time of preparation with limited success. You should at least employ a double ended casing tek to increase your output. I have fruited from both millet cakes and popcorn cakes, both performing very poorly, even when set in wet perlite dishes.

Spawn it, or at least use a casing method of some type. You will be so much happier with the end results, rather than disappointed. Edit: Actually, I guess a few small mushrooms is better than the green meanies infection you have had...



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To give is to live...


Edited by ATWAR (09/11/03 05:56 AM)

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Re: question on grain [Re: ATWAR]
    #1904240 -

Atwar, i have been doing casing and they keep getting contamed by trich., as mentioned in the first post, so untill that little problem can be fixed i need to come up with an other option, so birthing the cake is better than loosing what would have been multible cakes.
I was planing to do a PF style double casing, or even rolling the birthed cake in vermiculte due to the poor water content of a solid cake of grain.
about introducing light after full colinization, do i also wont to drop the temp to the fruiting range?

T.M. how well did if flush like that?

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Re: question on grain [Re: Ganoderma]
    #1904260 -

Whatever you use as a terrarium, spray everything with bleach. I mean soak that stuff then seal it up for 24 hours or longer. The fumes will help further sterilize the chamber. You also should look into your casing preparation method to see if it has any flaws. I agree with you that a grain cake is better than a green casing, see the edit above.

I would double end case it, and roll in verm also. It can't hurt, unless improperly sterilized. You can either drop the temperature or keep it incubating. I personally would keep it at incubation temperature if possible to keep the growth fast. If you are looking for pins in the jar, the lowering the temperature will help. Most strains will pin eventually at incubation temperatures anyway, so you might as well keep them warm, unless it is an inconvenience.

I have fruited many popcorn cakes, and attempted to fruit many millet cakes. Millet produced very poorly (one or two skinny mushrooms), while popcorn did yield a few mushrooms (probably half to 3/4 the yield of PF cakes). I would assume rye would perform slightly better as I believe it absorbs more water than millet (I prepare mine with more water). But I have no experience fruiting rye berry cakes.

You need to focus on cleaning up the infestation. Use the bleach method I mentioned, and Lysol bomb the room that they are grown in. Take a Lysol air disinfectant spray bottle and wedge the button down so it sprays continuously. Leave the room for several hours, then open a window or vent fumes when you return. When you get the green mold, millions of spores are released into the air all through your house. If you ever see it again seal that container up immediately and throw it out fast! It can be a real pain, a buddy of mine just got over endless trich. He had to throw everything out, bleach and alcohol everything, and Lysol bomb the room and closet. The heap filer probably helps also.



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To give is to live...


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Re: question on grain [Re: ATWAR]
    #1904290 -

I do all clean work in an glove box with a hepa fixed in it, the contams come in after casing has taken place and the first signs of trich pops up 3 days after going into the fruiting chamber which has an filtered vent
I wish i could open a window, but there are no windows in the room.
now how far should i go to eliminate the trich (i think my C.M.H. could be the sorce of the trich), should i basically tear the room appart and clean and scrub like like a mad man?
any chance my ozone gen could help to eliminate it even forther?
I also have another hepa running in the living room
Umm, even if i blasted the room, it has forced heating so most likely shit wouldjust beblown back in

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Re: question on grain [Re: Ganoderma]
    #1904305 -

You really need to clean like a madman, yes. Do the bleach method I mentioned in the above post to your fruiter. Clean that thing out 3 times afterwards with alcohol. Then clean it again (just kidding, but you can't get it too clean). Then vacuum the whole house, clean everything. Then break out the Lysol surface disinfectant and air disinfectant (2 different kinds). Spray the carpet down everywhere (watch them fumes), that is the biggest source of airborne contaminants. Then use the air disinfectant to bomb the house, and the room the terrarium is in. You must find the source, and eliminate it. If you have forced air, then turn the fan on and spray Lysol into the filter intake (change the filter while you?re at it). Basically clean everything.

Then, continue to work in your glove box. Keep from opening your terrarium unless absolutely necessary. I bet money on the contamination is either still hiding in your fruiter, or is everywhere (especially the carpet) in that room. Every time you go in there you kick up spores then when you open your terrarium they drift in.


I don't know about the ozone generator, but it also cannot hurt.


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To give is to live...


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Re: question on grain [Re: ATWAR]
    #1904320 -

so should i launder all clothin also what about my bed?

I think even if i change the filters in the heating system there's still shit in there in the ducts

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Re: question on grain [Re: Ganoderma]
    #1904328 -

I'm really thinking that the sorce could be my cold mist humidifier, which I'v had for years and just converted it

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Re: question on grain [Re: Ganoderma]
    #1904875 -

for fruiting off straight grain, you can case it right in the jar .
wrap sides of jar with tin foil, add about 3/4" sterile casing mix . :smirk:
this is better then a cake, but still not as good as spawing to compost, or poo .
  Edit: that's how it was done in the old days before PF tec .

Edited by deanofmean (09/11/03 12:30 PM)

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Re: question on grain [Re: deanofmean]
    #1904963 -

that is a good point, but if i fruited them in jars, i'd need twice if not three times more jars, since they would be occupied and not ready to have fresh grain PC'ed in them after a bit of short prep-work

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