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Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out.
    #18557835 -

So recently I've been going to the gym, rotating days between upper body and lower body. And a day or two of rest if I feel particularly tired, or sore.

I worked out Friday (upper body, bit of lower body) took a rest Saturday, and worked out my upper body again on Sunday. However at the end of Sunday, around 11pm  I noticed it feels like my muscles have decreased in size. I woke up sunday being able to feel my triceps, and biceps, but now it seems like my triceps are non existant, and my biceps feel smaller.

I think I might have overtrained my muscles, without proper rest, and potentially did some minor damage. Sunday after I worked out, I didn't get that usual feeling afterwards, liek I had actually dome some good working out. IT just felt... Lacking...


Can anyone offer some advice?

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18558420 -

i think your just second guessing yourself.  did you measure your muscles recently so you have a reference you can trust? you should take one now if not, and check if they get smaller :shrug: i think its very unlikely your muscles are decreasing in size after a workout

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Adolin]
    #18558647 -

it might be because you are doing upper body all in one day. i've been watching a lot of people in the gym and their routines, and i have noticed that the people who usually work their entire upper body in one day tend to be leaner, and have skinnier builds. how many hours does it take you to do entire upper body? 2 and a half hours?

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Crystal G]
    #18558664 -

You need to eat more and sleep more. Enough of those will help


--------------------
- grimR


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://egolost.com 
"I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself."

- Don Juan teachings

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: grimR]
    #18558823 -

grimR said:
You need to eat more and sleep more. Enough of those will help



yes, also consuming 20-30g protein every 3 hours. the amino acids in protein will help you recover faster too.

i'd also like to know a few things. how much are you sweating when you work out? are you taking in enough protein? protein is what builds muscle. the entire reason steroids even work is because it helps to utilize protein more efficiently to the muscles. steroids would do nothing if you didn't take in enough protein. thus, the same goes for natural workouts.

i swear, if i sleep too long and forget my protein shake in the morning, sometimes it will be 16 hours after my last dose of protein and i will look at myself in the mirror, and i SWEAR my muscles are not bulging out as much. like my shoulders will be completely almost GONE. i mean, it's only noticeable in the grams, nobody else would see it, but i pay so much attention to my body that i swear they get a teensy bit smaller when i skip protein.

my suggestion to you OP, is work only 2 muscle groups every week. you are overworking your muscles too much. even professional lifters don't lift the same muscle group more than once every 7 days. the shortest i've ever seen was 4 days. the longest i've ever seen was 10!

so for example, try this instead. and if you need help with the type of exercises you need to be doing for each individual muscle group let me know and i will type out a sample routine for you.
chest and tri's one day
legs
biceps and back
rest
shoulders and traps
core
rest

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: grimR]
    #18559254 -

Sounds like you had engorged muscles from working out aka "pump" and then you took a break and your muscles relaxed and "the pump" went away.

I'm not a lifter, but i know muscles do harden up while working out and then lose their firmness during recovery.

my .02cents.


--------------------
GO OUTSIDE.

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: PDU]
    #18559305 -

Also: our muscles are made up mostly of water with which carbs or sugars make for better pumps. Wen u do a carb depletion workout (on low cal or low carb) u will def shrink ur muscles visually n physically.

if u been low carb do a lil carbload and workout again. Then feed several hundred carbs spread thruout the day with protein and after the workout ur body will soak up tje sugars into ur muscle. Drink lots of watrr too.


--------------------
- grimR


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://egolost.com 
"I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself."

- Don Juan teachings

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: grimR]
    #18560231 -

WTF!!! So I wake up today, and I can feel my muscles again. I think it's be because I didn't have enough sleep, thus my muscles didn't get enough time to fully recover.

I've been eating VERY well. I'll get up in the morning, have a nice breakfast. Wait 1-2 hours grab a snack (Generally a sandwhich) wait about half an hour or so than go ot the gym. Workout for 45-60 minutes, than after words have a snack that is heavily based on meat.

Yesterday I ate:
Breakfast: Eggs, sausage, watermelon, canteloupe
pre-work out snack: club sandwhich
after-workout snack: Lamb Gyro
Dinner: Muscles, Prawns, Lobster, Pasta, Bread.

Throughout the day I'm constantly eating food, so I don't think diet is a. problem,

Crystal G: Yesterday I did: Leg curls, Leg extensions. Lat pull downs, Seated row, Bicep curls, The tricep exercise where you pull the bar down (it's been ages since I remember the names) than I did situps.

Each group I did 3 sets, anywhere from 12-30 reps. Basically just pushed it until I couldn't do it anymore than stopped and rested.

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18560297 -

Anonymous said:
Crystal G: Yesterday I did: Leg curls, Leg extensions. Lat pull downs, Seated row, Bicep curls, The tricep exercise where you pull the bar down (it's been ages since I remember the names) than I did situps.

Each group I did 3 sets, anywhere from 12-30 reps. Basically just pushed it until I couldn't do it anymore than stopped and rested.



instead of doing one exercise for every single muscle group, focus on one or two muscle groups and work them to death. so for example triceps, do tricep pulldowns, skullcrushers, weighted bench dips, weighted hanging dips.

likewise, devote an entire day for your legs. squats, deadlifts, leg press, jump rope, barbell walking lunges, jumping barbell squats, hill sprints or stair sprints. just doing leg curls and leg extensions is not enough.

do back and bicep on the same day, lateral pulldowns, seated rows, dumbbell bicep curls, seated barbell bicep curls, pullups, etc.

this is the way you will get big.

Also how much do you weigh? based on your sample diet, that looks to be around 2,000 calories. thats what somebody my size should be intaking each day to maintain their weight. you should be eating a lot more, that's the way to get big.

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Crystal G]
    #18560781 -

Hmm that sounds like a very good idea. I just like doing a mix of thigns everyday since I'm not sure when I can actually work out as I'm on vacation that way I feel like I'm working out my body evenly. But I guess I'm wrong? Plus the gyms at my hotels don't have all the equipment necessary for those excersises so I try to make use of whats there.

When I do the leg extensions and leg curls I always run after, and do calf excersises. Where you stand on your feet, and transfer weight to the very front of your feet (again I'm terrible at describing things so I hope you know what I mean.) And will run on a treadmill afterwards. I'm always walking everyday do. I forgot to mention  I also do situps, and sometimes I'll do a set or two of pushups.

I'm not TOO concerned with getting big, I just want to gain strength. I'm tall, and lanky  with a fucking HUGE metabolism so it'll be hard to get big. Even when I was going to a personal trainer, it barely showed that I was getting big, but I was getting stronger.

To be honest getting stronger is my main concern. LOL there's no way thats a 2000 calorie diet. These meals aren't small, they are huge, and very filling.

Edited by Anonymous (07/15/13 06:36 AM)

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18560977 -

Anonymous said:
Hmm that sounds like a very good idea. I just like doing a mix of things everyday since I'm not sure when I can actually work out as I'm on vacation that way I feel like I'm working out my body evenly. But I guess I'm wrong? Plus the gyms at my hotels don't have all the equipment necessary for those excersises so I try to make use of whats there.



Every gym has barbells and dumbbells; make use of those and the cable machines if there are any. The problem is working out the way that you are doing, doing one full body workout at a time, you won't get big doing that because there's not enough muscle tear for each individual muscle group, since you're only doing 1 exercise each muscle.

I know you want to focus on strength, but the reality is, you won't get big without getting strong, and you won't get strong without getting big. That's how you increase your strength, is by getting bigger and bigger and eating a horseshit.

Quote:
When I do the leg extensions and leg curls I always run after, and do calf excersises. Where you stand on your feet, and transfer weight to the very front of your feet (again I'm terrible at describing things so I hope you know what I mean.) And will run on a treadmill afterwards. I'm always walking everyday do. I forgot to mention  I also do situps, and sometimes I'll do a set or two of pushups.



You know what will make you feel really out of breath? You're in the perfect location for this because all hotels have a set of stairs. Do stairs sprints, and run on your tippy toes from the bottom all the way up all the flights of stairs. Go at least 10 flights before you take a break. Do 10 sets of this.

Quote:
I'm not TOO concerned with getting big, I just want to gain strength. I'm tall, and lanky  with a fucking HUGE metabolism so it'll be hard to get big. Even when I was going to a personal trainer, it barely showed that I was getting big, but I was getting stronger.



So do you max out when you work out then? If you're not maxing out you won't  get strong as quickly.

Quote:
To be honest getting stronger is my main concern. LOL there's no way thats a 2000 calorie diet. These meals aren't small, they are huge, and very filling.



Breakfast: Eggs, sausage, watermelon, canteloupe. Sausage, 80 calories, 2 eggs 160 calories, watermelon and canteloupe let's just say 50 kcal. That's 290 calories
pre-work out snack: club sandwhich. Approximately 500 calories
after-workout snack: Lamb Gyro. Approximately 650 calories
Dinner: Muscles, Prawns, Lobster, Pasta, Bread.  Aside from the pasta and bread, all the seafood is very low in calories. Lobster 200kcal, mussels 100kcal, prawns half pound 250kcal, bread 1 slice 100kcal, pasta 400kcal

Are you actually counting your calories, your grams of fat, grams of protein, and grams of carbs?

Edited by Crystal G (07/15/13 08:22 AM)

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Crystal G]
    #18561008 -

Crystal G said:
Every gym has barbells and dumbbells; make use of those and the cable machines if there are any. The problem is working out the way that you are doing, doing one full body workout at a time, you won't get big doing that because there's not enough muscle tear for each individual muscle group, since you're only doing 1 exercise each muscle.p



Yea they have barbells and dumbells. Generally they have one cable machine that you can do leg excersises and upper body excersises with. Hmm okay, if getting strong is my main concern and not necessarily getting big, is what I'm doing okay?



Quote:
You know what will make you feel really out of breath? You're in the perfect location for this because all hotels have a set of stairs. Do stairs sprints, and run on your tippy toes from the bottom all the way up all the flights of stairs. Go at least 10 flights before you take a break. Do 10 sets of this.



It's far to hot out to do excersises outside, I would pass out from the heat long before I'm done. I generally run 2km each day on the tredmill.



Quote:
So do you max out when you work out then? If you're not maxing out you won't  get strong as quickly.



By maxing out do you mean going until I can't do it anymore. Not all the time.

Quote:
Breakfast: Eggs, sausage, watermelon, canteloupe. Sausage, 80 calories, 2 eggs 160 calories, watermelon and canteloupe let's just say 50 kcal. That's 290 calories
pre-work out snack: club sandwhich. Approximately 500 calories
after-workout snack: Lamb Gyro. Approximately 650 calories
Dinner: Muscles, Prawns, Lobster, Pasta, Bread.  Aside from the pasta and bread, all the seafood is very low in calories. Lobster 200kcal, mussels 100kcal, prawns half pound 250kcal, bread 1 slice 100kcal, pasta 400kcal

Are you actually counting your calories, your grams of fat, grams of protein, and grams of carbs?



No I'm not actually counting them, I'm mainly just eating a filling meal everytime I get hungry. I'm about to go out and eat a gyro or maybe a sandwhich.


I started going to the gym a little under two weeks ago, and have been doing situps and pushups at home for three weeks total. I've noticed that I've been getting stronger, when I started my vacation I was able to do leg extensions and leg curls of 40lbs, and now im up to 75-80. Lat pulls downs I started two weeks ago doing 25lb, now I can do 40lb. So I think I've been doing something right...

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18561040 -

Anonymous said:
Yea they have barbells and dumbells. Generally they have one cable machine that you can do leg excersises and upper body excersises with. Hmm okay, if getting strong is my main concern and not necessarily getting big, is what I'm doing okay?



No, if getting strong is what you want you are not doing the right exercises. Max out on barbells and dumbbells by doing the heaviest weight possible. Cable machines you do lighter weights and higher reps on and burn out on those.



Quote:
It's far to hot out to do excersises outside, I would pass out from the heat long before I'm done. I generally run 2km each day on the tredmill.



Then get in the pool and tie a 15 gallon drum bucket around a buckle to your waist. Cut a hole at the very bottom of the bucket. Swim with this 15 gallon bucket dragging behind you. Treadmill is kind of a half-assed workout if you ask me. :p

Quote:
By maxing out do you mean going until I can't do it anymore. Not all the time.



By maxing out I mean heaviest weight possible, doing between 2-5 reps of your max weight. If you want strength, this is what you should be doing all the time. You need to be going until muscle failure each and every time. Think about it. How are your muscles going to get stronger if you don't push them everytime?

BTW, you WILL get bigger when you are training for strength. Most of my workouts consist of maxing out as well, and I have seen a lot more progress in size than when I was training for hypertrophy.

Quote:
No I'm not actually counting them, I'm mainly just eating a filling meal everytime I get hungry. I'm about to go out and eat a gyro or maybe a sandwhich.



That sample meal you posted is between 2000-2500 calories. You need to count your calories and macros and nutrients and get back to me. Remodify your diet, and add more calorie-dense foods if you have trouble stuffing yourself. Things like cheese, avocado, bacon, nuts, peanut butter, etc.

I'm assuming you're a male, I don't know your weight, but I'll just assume you're 160? I haven't calculated what you should be consuming at this weight, but somewhere around 3,000 I'm guessing. Tell me your stats and I'll figure it out for you.


Quote:
I started going to the gym a little under two weeks ago, and have been doing situps and pushups at home for three weeks total. I've noticed that I've been getting stronger, when I started my vacation I was able to do leg extensions and leg curls of 40lbs, and now im up to 75-80. Lat pulls downs I started two weeks ago doing 25lb, now I can do 40lb. So I think I've been doing something right...



Good for you! Pretty soon you'll be able to do pullups in no time.

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Crystal G]
    #18561634 -

Crystal G said:
No, if getting strong is what you want you are not doing the right exercises. Max out on barbells and dumbbells by doing the heaviest weight possible. Cable machines you do lighter weights and higher reps on and burn out on those.



Alright so I'm guessing the cable machines are to train your endurance, and the dumbells and barbells are for strength?

So basically on the cable machines I'll decrease my weight by half but double my reps? (if that's a good strategy)

So for dumbells and barbells use the heaviest weight I can? I'm guessing it should be a weight that's heavy but that I'm actually able to lift?


Quote:
Then get in the pool and tie a 15 gallon drum bucket around a buckle to your waist. Cut a hole at the very bottom of the bucket. Swim with this 15 gallon bucket dragging behind you. Treadmill is kind of a half-assed workout if you ask me. :p


Haha well I run on the treadmill for 2KM so I don't think thats half assed :P Plus I walk around all day.

Quote:
By maxing out I mean heaviest weight possible, doing between 2-5 reps of your max weight. If you want strength, this is what you should be doing all the time. You need to be going until muscle failure each and every time. Think about it. How are your muscles going to get stronger if you don't push them everytime?

BTW, you WILL get bigger when you are training for strength. Most of my workouts consist of maxing out as well, and I have seen a lot more progress in size than when I was training for hypertrophy.



so 2-5 reps, how many sets should I do? Until I get so tired I can't lift anymore?
doyouevenliftbro? XD (felt like this was a good place to include)

Quote:
That sample meal you posted is between 2000-2500 calories. You need to count your calories and macros and nutrients and get back to me. Remodify your diet, and add more calorie-dense foods if you have trouble stuffing yourself. Things like cheese, avocado, bacon, nuts, peanut butter, etc.



Well I have no real way of counting my food, since I'm pretty much just eating at restaurants all day.

Quote:
I'm assuming you're a male, I don't know your weight, but I'll just assume you're 160? I haven't calculated what you should be consuming at this weight, but somewhere around 3,000 I'm guessing. Tell me your stats and I'll figure it out for you.



I certainly hope I am *checks pants* yup! I weigh 165 pounds, and I'm 6ft 3inches. Need my dick stats as well? XD (I joke)


Quote:
Good for you! Pretty soon you'll be able to do pullups in no time.



Thanks for the help Crystal :laugh: Much appreciated! I'll rep you but I'm pretty sure I've repped you awhile ago.

I'm also going to start Karate again in September, and once september rolls around and I'm done all my vacations going to see a personal trainer 1-3 times a week.

I don't want to get fucking beastly huge as I kind of like being tall and lanky, and so does the girlfriend. I just wanna get stronger :frown:

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18561836 -

Anonymous said:
Alright so I'm guessing the cable machines are to train your endurance, and the dumbells and barbells are for strength?

So basically on the cable machines I'll decrease my weight by half but double my reps? (if that's a good strategy)



You don't have to decrease your weight by half, just decrease it by a little bit. You want to go lighter on the cables because you really want to be watching your form with the cables. Like 80% of people I see on the cables don't do the form correctly. If you are doing tricep pulldown or bicep curl, make sure you are ONLY bending your elbow and not swinging with your entire body and using momentum.

Quote:
So for dumbells and barbells use the heaviest weight I can? I'm guessing it should be a weight that's heavy but that I'm actually able to lift?



It should be the heaviest weight that you can physically lift. PROPERLY.

Quote:
Haha well I run on the treadmill for 2KM so I don't think thats half assed :P Plus I walk around all day.



No offense but... that's nothing. Even I can run one mile with smoker's asthma and flat feet. And I suck at cardio.

Quote:
so 2-5 reps, how many sets should I do? Until I get so tired I can't lift anymore?



you should do a warm-up set with a lighter weight (approximately 20lbs lighter than what you lift as your max depending on what you're working on) and go to 15 or 20. then 4 sets of maxing out as heavy as you can. you should be doing several exercises of maxing out on one particular muscle group.

so for example, if you're doing shoulders, you max out on shoulder press first, then military press, then upright rows. all of these work your shoulders and are for maxing out. then you will burn out with lighter weights, do shoulder press with cables at a lighter weight. then frontal lateral raises with cables and dumbbells at a lighter weight.

likewise, if it's chest day, warm up with pushups (or weighted pushups), then max out on bench press, chest press, bench press on the incline, bench press on the decline, and pectoral fly's. all of this is maxing out, push yourself until muscle failure. then pec fly's and other chest exercises on the cable at lighter weight

Quote:
I certainly hope I am *checks pants* yup! I weigh 165 pounds, and I'm 6ft 3inches. Need my dick stats as well? XD (I joke)



HOYL FUCK, you are 165 at 6'3??? Dude you are TINY!!!!!!! I mean you're tall, but damn you are skinny as a rail.

Well, you need approximately 2800 kcal to maintain your weight, but if you want to get stronger, you need to be eating more, at least 300-500kcal above your maintenance level. so you need to be eating around 3200 calories a day.

Quote:
I don't want to get fucking beastly huge as I kind of like being tall and lanky, and so does the girlfriend. I just wanna get stronger :frown:



Don't worry you won't. You WILL get bigger though if you are training for strength. It'll take a few years though before you start getting huge.

Edited by Crystal G (07/15/13 12:40 PM)

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Crystal G]
    #18561882 -

Yea I never bend my body, only bend at the elbows. I always watch in the mirror to make sure I'm doing to correct.

Alright, I'll check to see what the heaviest I can lift is next time I'm in the gym.

so one warm up set of realy light weight for 15-20 reps, than 4 sets of as many max outs as I can? Sounds doable.

Yea I'm pretty skinny, I eat like a truck though. I gaurantee you I eat more than 3K calories a day. My mom eats 2K and I generally eat 3-4 times as much as she does. Most days I'll eat around 1-2k in snacks alone. My metabolism is godly high and is really annoying.

Meh I don't really want to get bigger; I don't wanna look like one of those people whose jacked as fuck, strength is my main concern.

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18561901 -

Anonymous said:
Yea I never bend my body, only bend at the elbows. I always watch in the mirror to make sure I'm doing to correct.

Alright, I'll check to see what the heaviest I can lift is next time I'm in the gym.

so one warm up set of realy light weight for 15-20 reps, than 4 sets of as many max outs as I can? Sounds doable.

Yea I'm pretty skinny, I eat like a truck though. I gaurantee you I eat more than 3K calories a day. My mom eats 2K and I generally eat 3-4 times as much as she does. Most days I'll eat around 1-2k in snacks alone. My metabolism is godly high and is really annoying.

Meh I don't really want to get bigger; I don't wanna look like one of those people whose jacked as fuck, strength is my main concern.



Nice. My goal is both. Being strong AND jacked as fuck lmao
thing is, you have to be gaining weight to get stronger. so as you get stronger, you will naturally get bigger, that is simply what happens.

please report back what your max is and for what.

sometimes it helps to have a spotter. my max without a spotter for chest press is 40lb dumbbells, but when i have a spotter who helps "kick up" that initial first weight, then my max becomes 45-50lb dumbbells

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: PDU]
    #18562413 -

PDU said:
Sounds like you had engorged muscles from working out aka "pump" and then you took a break and your muscles relaxed and "the pump" went away.

I'm not a lifter, but i know muscles do harden up while working out and then lose their firmness during recovery.

my .02cents.



Absolutely correct.

Many people, due to popular tripe and infomercials, believe that muscle and sculpted bodies are easily and quickly attainable. Rather, sculpting a body and increasing muscle size is a long term affair. I recommend periodization; a plan which maximizes our capability to grow.

I often see two kinds of lifters in the gym: First, the kind that wear cut off shirts, headphones, and posses a terrible habit of admiring their own biceps in the mirror while at the same time sacrificing their form. Secondly, the experienced lifter with a notebook wherein he will record his gains and losses and make notes for himself. The experienced lifter may often be seen obsessing over perfect form, a quality, in the case of resistance training, that is of the upmost importance.

The pretentious gym rate thrives on the 'pump' and he will often use it to boost his pride.

The patient weight lifter knows that his success will be made through long term adaptations.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Crystal G]
    #18562484 -

Crystal G said:
Nice. My goal is both. Being strong AND jacked as fuck lmao
thing is, you have to be gaining weight to get stronger. so as you get stronger, you will naturally get bigger, that is simply what happens.

please report back what your max is and for what.

sometimes it helps to have a spotter. my max without a spotter for chest press is 40lb dumbbells, but when i have a spotter who helps "kick up" that initial first weight, then my max becomes 45-50lb dumbbells




Haha fair enough, I just dont think  I would look goot jacked as fuck, but to each their own. I've been gaining weight since I went on vacation. I started at 65kg and im now 75kg. I've already filled out quite a bit, but its mostly do to weight gain however there has been muscle gain as well, which has been noticed by my family and the girlfriend.

Yea I'll let you know what I max out at when I go to the gym. Pretty sure I'm going to go after I wake up.

Ah spottesr help tremendously, unfortunately I have no one to spot me.

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Re: Biceps and Triceps seemed to have dissapeared 12 hours after working out. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18563989 -

You just had a pump...in which the muscles are enlarged for a brief time after your work out.

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* Damnit... music doesn't work anymore
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PeachMan 5,162 27 02/24/06 02:17 PM
by budsicle

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