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Offlinechaostheory
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Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up
    #1854089 - 08/27/03 08:39 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

George Bushy just started a bulk growing operation and has run into a few issues. Im going to outline his procedures and please feel free to tell me what hes doing wrong, or suggestions to make it better.

He started with 15 pressure cooked pints of corn innoculated with 2 ml of B+ cub. These quickly colonized and were used to colonize 48 more jars via grain to grain transfer. The second set of jars had no holes in them since they were not innoculated via syringe. During the transfer, the myc was also broken up and shaken through out the jar. On a side note, the jars were fully colonized for some time, and the "fuzzy" myc seemed to turn hard and compacted. Weeks went buy and all but a few simply did nothing. So first question is, are the holes necissary for air transfer? Second, does breaking up the myc cause problems? Finally, when the myc is no longer fuzzy is it still alive or able to spread further or did he wait to long?

George Bushy was disheartened, but used the couple of jars that survived to colonize another 14 jars via grain to grain transfers once again. This time he used lids with holes full of polyfill. This time it worked like a champ, but the colonization was much longer then simple syringe innoculation. Are grain to grain transfers beneficial in any way other then simplicity?

He then moved onto the substrate step. He combined steer manuer with "mushroom compost" at a 50/50 ratio and put it in a pillow case. The mushroom compost is a bag that you would buy at say fred meyers but is specifically for mushroom growth or such. He heard that there were problems with pasteurization of straw due to seeds and such. He then placed the pillow case in a cooler full of 170 degree water and let it sit over night. Should he have just done it for 1 hour and is the water cooling off slightly a problem?

Yet his greatest issue was the water content. He didnt want to let it drip dry due to the possiblity of contamination so he smashed it between 2 boards. First off, how wet should the substrate be and does anyone have a decent method for smashing the water out of pounds and pounds of wet shit? He was thinking some device that included door hinges, plywood, and a clamp.

He then broke up the smashed substrate and put into a plastic tray about the size of a piece of paper and 3 inches deep. He filled it up 2 inches leaving 1 inch for casing. He put the myc in it trying to keep good size chunks of corn together so not to disrupt the myc. He then placed it on a steel rack covered by clear 10 mil plastic and duct tape. Each rack used 1 cool mist humidifier.

He has yet to make it to the casing stage, but plans on pasteurizing a 50/50 mix of vermiculite and coco coir and spreading it on top of each tray when the substrate is fully colonized.

Please help George Bushy make this a complete, simple, easy, and quick process with your great ideas and ingenuity.

Thanks in advance


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: chaostheory]
    #1854149 - 08/27/03 09:46 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

> So first question is, are the holes necissary for air transfer?

Air exchange is good. Anytime Jeb seals up the spawn he has problems.

> Second, does breaking up the myc cause problems?

No.

> Finally, when the myc is no longer fuzzy is it still alive or able to spread further or did he wait to long?

Unless you left it for a very long time, it should be alive and kicking.

> This time it worked like a champ, but the colonization was much longer then simple syringe innoculation. Are grain to grain transfers beneficial in any way other then simplicity?

Transfers work great if you have a single isolate, such as a clone from a fruitbody. They are also good when you are using a bulk substrate such as straw. They are usually faster than spore inoculation... I don't know why yours were slower.

> 170 degree water and let it sit over night

Too warm and too long. You are trying to kill off all the bad guys without killing all the good guys. On a side note, Jeb has never had luck with store bought compost, for growing mushrooms or otherwise.

> He didnt want to let it drip dry due to the possiblity of contamination

Some of Jeb's best came from pillocases that hung in the garage for a few days before he used them.

> how wet should the substrate

It is more common mistake to be too wet than too dry.

> does anyone have a decent method for smashing the water out of pounds and pounds of wet shit

Just let it hang from a hook and drip dry.

> He put the myc in

Better to mix it up than to lay the myc on top.

> substrate... and 3 inches deep ... leaving 1 inch for casing...

A 1 inch casing may be too much for only 3 inches of substrate. Jeb would only use about half of that...

Be sure you don't skimp on the spawn you add to the bulk substrate. Also make sure the substrate isn't too wet. A thicker substrate (5-6 inches) would be better. Make sure the bulk substrate can breath and drain. If you are using rubbermaid containers, you need to drill some holes in the bottom. Cardboard boxes lined with plastic work much better and are cheaper. I would avoid coir until you are used to the casing method. Coir tends to contaminate easily and turns colors (redish) with age that be confusing if unexpected.


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Offlinechaostheory
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: Seuss]
    #1855334 - 08/27/03 05:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the great reply seuss-
Just got a couple questions about your answers to clear things up.

> 170 degree water and let it sit over night

Too warm and too long. You are trying to kill off all the bad guys without killing all the good guys. On a side note, Jeb has never had luck with store bought compost, for growing mushrooms or otherwise.

-what temp and time does jeb use?

> He didnt want to let it drip dry due to the possiblity of contamination

Some of Jeb's best came from pillocases that hung in the garage for a few days before he used them.

-Doesnt that expose it to air born contaminants? if it is drip dried should i do it in the clean room? how long should I drip dry it and what should the moisture content look like when its done?

>On a side note, Jeb has never had luck with store bought compost, for growing mushrooms or otherwise.

What does jeb use? Is there issues with contaminations from straw because its hard to kill things where the seeds are, or is that a myth? Is there any store bought manuer that could be used, i dont think George Bushy has the time to pick of piles of shit for the amount of trays hes doing.

Thanks for all the help, if anybody else has anything to add please dont refrain!




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InvisibleZildjian
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: chaostheory]
    #1858516 - 08/28/03 12:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

try pasturizing your bulk substrate in the microwave. Add plenty of water, so it doesn't dry out in the microwave, and give it about 10 minuites on high. Let cool in microwave, then give it another 10. take out of microwave and cover with plastic wrap. once cool, put on gloves and squeeze to correct moisture content. Add spawn and mix with hands. put in trays, cover with foil and wait to colonise. You may want to try horse shit or straw instead of anything else, but i'm sure the compost will work using this method. Only substrates with high nitrogen are resistant to the deadly microwave. I'm too shit at pasturizing things in pillowcases, all the times i tried it it fucked up, the microwave works a treat.

P.S. what the hell are you doing not making holes in the lids of your jars? they need air exchange or else they go sour :smile:


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: chaostheory]
    #1858697 - 08/28/03 01:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)



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Offlinechaostheory
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: Hippie3]
    #1859833 - 08/28/03 06:42 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

sweet pics

So this tek only uses straw? No casing at all? Where would George Bushy be able to get some of this tube visqueen, would it be found at a local hardwood store? Hes also having a hard time finding lime, what kind is he looking for and where is the best place to buy some?

Thanks again everyone, you all rule!


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: chaostheory]
    #1859862 - 08/28/03 06:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Hydrated Lime. Any store with a garden center should have it. It's used to raise pH in soil.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: chaostheory]
    #1860809 - 08/28/03 11:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

just straw, no casing.
you can also find hydrated lime in the grocery store where it's sold as 'pickling lime', should be right next to the mason/canning jars.

Quote:

The tubing came from WW Grainger. Part number is 5ZW54. Most US cities have a WW Grainger. It's mainly for industrial customers, but they sell across the counter as well. Also try www.grainger.com Yes, you have to buy 1,000 feet of the stuff, but $85 is a small price to pay for a lifetime supply of the material. The diameter of the tubing I bought was 8". It's also available in 10, 12, and 16.



be sure to get at least 4 mill thickness, the 2 is too thin to survive stuffing w/straw.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: Hippie3]
    #1862076 - 08/29/03 10:05 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

btw, the 10 inch diameter logs seems about optimum


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Offlinechaostheory
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: Hippie3]
    #1875140 - 09/02/03 08:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

We aren't not done with ya yet hippie-

Bushy has got more questions then a rookie cop on his first domestic violence call!

First off and most importantly, where can Bushy find organic straw in this quanity? hell where can he find organic straw in ANY quanity?

Next, what are the benefits of mixing manuer with straw in other techs? would we get more/better flushes by mixes maneur in the straw log tech?

Bushy is not necissarily stoked on trying to make this amount of casing, but would it be possible or even advantageous to case the logs?

Do the logs without casing only last for one flush? What would be the expected yield of 1 flush from a 3 foot long x 10" in diameter log?

Bushy heard of people dunking there entire logs in water after they cut open the plastic to saturate the log in water again. Is this necissary and would putting them on an inclosed rack with a humidifier help to alliviate this problem? should they be put on the rack while they colonize the straw inside the plastic as well? Bushy was hoping to leave them in a clean room until they are ready to fruit then cutting the plastic open and putting them on the humidified racks for fruting.

Im sure hell think of more questions in the future but im sure this is enuff for you to chew on for now..

Thanks again for all the help



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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: chaostheory]
    #1876743 - 09/03/03 07:16 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

just follow the tek,
no manure nor casing.
any straw is ok, no need to be 'organic'.
dunk after 1st flush.
leave plastic on until pinning well underway.
there's plenty more info on the archives at mycotopia.
peace


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: Hippie3]
    #1920103 - 09/16/03 12:55 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

So if straw works...howabout clippings from my yard?! Argentine Bahia I belive! Thaks guys BEAUTIFUL pics...I AM OWNED!!


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Offlinecell
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: simplemachine]
    #1922842 - 09/16/03 09:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

clippings might work, but would most likely have a higher risk of contamination, straw is just the tube parts of the plant, but give it a try


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: cell]
    #1924751 - 09/17/03 12:23 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i've seen folks fruit on ordinary grass [lawn] clippings before.


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Invisibletak
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: Hippie3]
    #1925056 - 09/17/03 02:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i know a few people who birth off grass...without the best results.

As far as the mushroom soil or whatever, ive heard things on these boards that the soil sold as mushroom growing soil in stores is spent mushroom soil, that it was used for bulk cultivation of edibles, and most the nutrients mushrooms need are already gone. Maybe im mistaken though.

Good luck!


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OfflineGrandpa
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Re: Full Bulk Process-> hook a brother up [Re: tak]
    #1926495 - 09/17/03 10:06 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

mushroom soil = poop.

:-D


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Coir, Ultrasonic Humidifier, Vermiculite, pH Test Strips

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