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OfflinePugslee_Atoms420
Street Pigs areour friends
Registered: 08/20/02
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Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have exp?
    #1067471 - 11/19/02 09:59 PM (14 years, 18 days ago)

Hey all; I was wondering if anyone has any experience using worm castings either in mix as a casing layer or simply as a bulk substrate. I have read all the posts I could find, but I really didn't find any completed experiments, only ideas. Can anyone tell me if this might work? Everything I read seems to be from at least 6 months or so ago, so any current suggestions would be most appreciated. I have already bought 5 lbs of (pure?) worm castings from MicronMagik, so either way I will be using at least 3 or 4 jars of colonized rye berries to experiment with. Can any experienced growers suggest which way to go? If they are not too reliable for a casing layer (I have read a few times that they are very susceptible to green trich) I might as well try them as a sterilized bulk spawn; either in a big bag or in jars spawned from a single grain master. I know that worm castings are quite nutrient rich, like cow or horse dung. So I would definitely like to find a use. Can anyone recommend which way to go and maybe the process I should use for sterilization? I was thinking of pastuerization; but I have no experience with that. Would simple jar sterilization work? I don't really want a large amount of shrooms or anything, I simply want to further my knowledge and experience. Thanks in advance for any help!!!!!!

WEED INDEED


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OfflineCurious_George
You want abaloon?

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 1,065
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have exp? [Re: Pugslee_Atoms420]
    #1073352 - 11/21/02 12:07 PM (14 years, 16 days ago)

I"ve used it to grow umm... plants....

but never shrooms, you might want to mix in some perlite and vermiculite to air it up a bit and help even out the water content thing..... i know it gets heavy when soaked,,, might bee too wet if pasturized.. not sure tho.. i just hate to see a thread un answered...he he..

cg


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************************************.>>>>>
Here Johny,, have a joint.. all your friends are doing it!!


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OfflineRaadt
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Registered: 06/07/02
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have exp? [Re: Pugslee_Atoms420]
    #1073383 - 11/21/02 12:18 PM (14 years, 16 days ago)

I would, if you can, mix it with vermiculite, and perhaps some straw, or manure or something else. I have heard good things about them, but yes, they may be a bit too dense. I personally have never used them myself, though.


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Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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OfflinePugslee_Atoms420
Street Pigs areour friends
Registered: 08/20/02
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have exp? [Re: Curious_George]
    #1073863 - 11/21/02 03:18 PM (14 years, 16 days ago)

so I was planning on using the worm castings with another filler to increse the water holding capacity, most likely that would be vermiculite. But I am still concerned that it will not colonize if innoculated directly, so do you all think I should transfer from living culture? If so should I expect pretty rapid colonization? From what I have read it seems to colonize very quick, I just have to be really careful to keep the contams at bay. Thanks for answering both of ya; I was afraid no-one would!!!


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OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
Polyfil-ophile-Say it 3 timesfast.

Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have exp? [Re: Pugslee_Atoms420]
    #1074738 - 11/21/02 08:21 PM (14 years, 16 days ago)

I recall seeing something about using worm poo. It was used 50/50 with something else. Horse poo,or maybe straw. Do a search. I think it's going to be pretty expensive by the pound. Maybe make it a tea, and soak straw in it.


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have exp? [Re: Pugslee_Atoms420]
    #1074828 - 11/21/02 08:54 PM (14 years, 16 days ago)

don't innoculate it, spawn it.


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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OfflinePSiLO187
newbie
Registered: 06/13/00
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have exp? [Re: Pugslee_Atoms420]
    #1075080 - 11/21/02 10:54 PM (14 years, 16 days ago)

I wrote a tek few years back. I think it may still be on this site in the archives.


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InvisibleJoshua
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Registered: 10/27/98
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have exp? [Re: Pugslee_Atoms420]
    #1075826 - 11/22/02 04:13 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

I have attempted mycelial growth on castings. I found the growth to be extremely poor and a waste of good castings.

Joshua


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Offlinerhizo
herb eater

Registered: 10/31/02
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have [Re: Joshua]
    #1106445 - 12/03/02 08:45 AM (14 years, 5 days ago)

"I have attempted mycelial growth on castings."

could you give more details on method/tek used? curious about castings


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An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.


Edited by rhizo (12/03/02 08:47 AM)


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have [Re: rhizo]
    #1106957 - 12/03/02 01:57 PM (14 years, 4 days ago)

I spawned some extra castings I had with some white millet. The growth into the castings was very slow and weak. This is my only experience w/ castings. I am a dung man now.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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OfflinePugslee_Atoms420
Street Pigs areour friends
Registered: 08/20/02
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have [Re: Joshua]
    #1120066 - 12/07/02 04:40 PM (14 years, 17 hours ago)

Did you spawn castings only Joshua? I planned on doing castings and ground straw, or something like that. Maybe castings, coco coir, and vermiculite in equal parts. Hell I'll bet peat moss would be a good ingredient to add as well. From everything I've read castings are close to as nutrient rich as dung, and you don't really ever spawn straight dung for indoor cultivation do you? I'll bet if you spawned straight dung with white millet like you did the castings, the growth would be very slow as well; kind of like how slow it progresses naturally outdoor. Same thing. Am I wrong or did you mix it with something and just not say? No offense to you Joshua or anything, it just sounds like you only gave it 1 try and gave up. 1 quick question that would probably help, when you tried it did you pasteurize it or sterilize? I was wondering which route would be better for that. Hopefully sterilization is OK. Any thoughts?


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have [Re: Pugslee_Atoms420]
    #1120354 - 12/07/02 08:12 PM (14 years, 14 hours ago)

In reply to:

when you tried it did you pasteurize it or sterilize? I was wondering which route would be better for that. Hopefully sterilization is OK. Any thoughts?


I've never used worm castings, but I don't think you'd want to sterilize any bulk substrate, since that would leave the door wide open for contams.
In reply to:

and you don't really ever spawn straight dung for indoor cultivation do you?


Straight dung can and has been used with success many times, but I do prefer a straw/dung combo.


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InvisibleJoshua
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Registered: 10/27/98
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have [Re: Pugslee_Atoms420]
    #1121010 - 12/08/02 02:04 AM (14 years, 8 hours ago)

>Did you spawn castings only Joshua?

Yes, I actually looked into it the other day. My proceedure was sloppy and may not be indicative of the full casting potential. I mixed some castings w/ a peroxide sol'n and then filled a jar that had some residual colonised woodchips from my Un Id on Maple chip project.

>you don't really ever spawn straight dung for indoor cultivation do you?

This is currently my main mode of fruiting. I go against conventional proceedures by sterilising my bulk substrate as well. I need to slow down and do some quantitative/qualitative testing to determine what the real story is. But for now I think I will be creative and write my own story.

>No offense to you Joshua or anything, it just sounds like you only gave it 1 try and gave up.

You called it very correctly. I should not have piped up w/ the conviction I did w/o the proper experience to back up my thoughts.

I think it would be productive to create a microbe mixture that would be specially formulated to help protect bulk substrates from competitor organisms while allowing the colonisation of selective fungi. One could sterilise a substrate and then mix in the microbe mix afterward. This would ensure the proper balance of beneficial organisms in the substrate. I think that pasteurisation in my environment is more of a gamble than sterilisation. This is all a nice pipe dream though.

Joshua


--------------------
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Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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Offlinerhizo
herb eater

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 598
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have [Re: Joshua]
    #1121089 - 12/08/02 02:35 AM (14 years, 7 hours ago)

sterilizing dung?? have you had contam problems with dung? anyway, i don't see any reason why worm castings fluffed up with coir or verm(the devil) wouldn't work, but i haven't tried it myself so i'm talking out my arse.


--------------------
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OfflinePugslee_Atoms420
Street Pigs areour friends
Registered: 08/20/02
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have [Re: Joshua]
    #1122268 - 12/08/02 04:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)



In reply to:

think it would be productive to create a microbe mixture that would be specially formulated to help protect bulk substrates from competitor organisms while allowing the colonisation of selective fungi.




Very cool Joshua; I believe you have one great idea in thinking of a microbe mixture to use with sterilized bulk substrate. The only problem I could forsee is having to pasteurize the microbe mixture to ensure that it has the proper balance of microbes without other harmful contaminants, otherwise you might run into the same problems as using dung straight from the ground. But of course this would be much easier than pasteurizing a bunch of bulk substrate, because you would only be working with very small amounts. Then for your bulk substrate you could go many different routes for sterilization, from baking in the oven to 15 minutes in the microwave to the standard pressure cooking in large bags. I'd love to hear more talk on this; maybe you could stir up some good discussion in a separate thread? I have tried to read all of your threads as I really respect your knowledge and experience; and I know others obviously do to. I can really say I've learned a bunch from you and your most excellent research/documentation style (great pictures man). Peace out!!!


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OfflineShtoops
Wonka'sMycologist

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 87
Loc: Willy's Oompa Lab
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have [Re: Pugslee_Atoms420]
    #1124397 - 12/09/02 11:34 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

What about a worm casting / verm casing layer... I don't want to go w/ bulk just because I don't have the space to grow in bulk...


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OfflinePugslee_Atoms420
Street Pigs areour friends
Registered: 08/20/02
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have [Re: Shtoops]
    #1124713 - 12/09/02 01:41 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I actually cased 4 jars late last week, 2 with worm castings, vermiculite, and coco coir in equal parts. 2 were then cased with castings, vermiculite, and peat moss in equal parts (with a little calcium carbonate). They are all a day or so away from being birthed into a growspace, I'll let you know how they do compared to the majority of the rest of the casings, which were either 50/50 or coco coir/vermiculite or coco coir/vermiculite/peat moss. They were all the new Creeper strain so I wanted to get an idea what it would do best on. Should be pinning by the end of the week I imagine!!!


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InvisibleJoshua
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Registered: 10/27/98
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have [Re: Pugslee_Atoms420]
    #1127832 - 12/10/02 05:05 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

>The only problem I could forsee is having to pasteurize the microbe mixture to ensure that it has the proper balance of microbes without other harmful contaminants, otherwise you might run into the same problems as using dung straight from the ground.

If I am designing the mix, it would be a custom cocktail. I would leave the bad microbes out.

This is a pipe dream, I only mention these in passing.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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Invisibletehshyt
Stranger
Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 11
Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have [Re: Joshua]
    #13111849 - 08/27/10 11:38 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

a foaf has has great success with worm casings and verm


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Worm castings as bulk substrate? Anyone have exp? [Re: Pugslee_Atoms420]
    #13112148 - 08/28/10 12:51 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
Bumping 8 year old dead threads that were off topic in advanced mycology 8 years ago, are NOT the way to boost your post count.


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