Dawks said:

False.

Anyone who has claims to have witnessed God is evidence of God's existence. Irrefutable evidence, no. But evidence.

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JoieDeVivre said:

So then are schizophrenic delusions evidence that the delusion exists? No. It's just evidence that something caused the delusion.

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"If three people see James murder Sarah is that evidence that James murdered Sarah. No. It's just evidence that something caused Sarah to die"

JoieDeVivre said:

We have a statistical probability that life exists on other planets. We have the fact that life developed here as evidence that life could develop anywhere else. We can logically deduce that life elsewhere in the universe could occur because we know that life occured on earth. That is nothing like the concept of god because NOTHING in direct experience reliably gives us "god."

There's nothing at all to suggest god exists. "God" is simply a concept that humans have used that means "ineffable" and is used to explain something we cannot understand. Multiple cultures of the past used gods to explain away things they could not understand, like the sun and moon and the weather and volcanoes and sadness and misfortune. That isn't evidence for god, it's evidence for human ignorance and desire to explain things.

The only thing that is reliable about god is that humans will use the concept to explain what they don't understand or what makes them afraid.

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indeed. 

sVs said:

Your poor epistemological comprehension is showing.

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Considering I don't even know what "epistemological" means I'm not surprised

Dawks said:

JoieDeVivre said:

So then are schizophrenic delusions evidence that the delusion exists? No. It's just evidence that something caused the delusion.

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"If three people see James murder Sarah is that evidence that James murdered Sarah. No. It's just evidence that something caused Sarah to die"

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JoieDeVivre said:

The only thing that is reliable about god is that humans will use the concept to explain what they don't understand or what makes them afraid.

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How in the hell do you know how every freaking human will use the concept of god? Putting all believers into a category of those who are afraid shows me your immense hypocrisy, as I have often seen you debate on how taking part in just that type of statement is wrong (or something to that effect).

Yet, when it comes to the subject of god and believer...its Ok to lump them in a group and say they use it to explain what makes them afraid.

TheMule73 said:

JoieDeVivre said:

The only thing that is reliable about god is that humans will use the concept to explain what they don't understand or what makes them afraid.

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How in the hell do you know how every freaking human will use the concept of god? Putting all believers into a category of those who are afraid show me your immense hypocrisy, as I have often seen you debate on how taking part in just that type of statement is wrong (or something to that effect).

Yet, when it comes to the subject of god and believer...its Ok to lump them in a group and say they use it to explain what makes them afraid.

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Calm down dude.

I never said "every freaking human will use the concept of god" because I didn't even lay out a specific conceptualization of god. All believers do use god to explain that which we do not understand though, I've never once seen a case where that isn't true. If you can show me a case where that is not true I'll gladly revise my personal position.

It's not just what makes them afraid, it's usually more about what they don't understand. Like I said, show me a case where that is not true. Show me a case where god can be used to explain something that we do understand in a logical, evidence based way and I'll agree with you. You wont be able to though.

God is defined by our inability to comprehend such a divine being/force/whatever. That in and of itself shows me god is based in ignorance.

Quote:

   

•     Our understanding of God is a being than which no greater can be conceived.
  
•     The idea of God exists in the mind.
  
•     A being which exists both in the mind and in reality is greater than a being that exists only in the mind.
  
•     If God only exists in the mind, then we can conceive of a greater being—that which exists in reality.
  
•     We cannot be imagining something that is greater than God.
  
•     Therefore, God exists.
  

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sVs said:

He must be your messiah.

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