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Jesus is not a get out of hell free card
    #18017176 -

Somehow the protestants have managed to convince a significant % of the world's population to essentially believe this. Now despite what people will say about the Roman Catholic Church or Eastern Orthodox churches, at least their current teachings on salvation seem reconcilable with a just God. Sin separates one from God and therefore in those religions, sinners cannot enter paradise unless they have repented and turned away from sin. In Roman Catholocism, like Hindiusm and Buddhism, salvation is not ludicrously easiy happening the moment one believes in Jesus but rather the life work of the soul, the culmination of which is mystical union with Christ or sainthood.  In protestanism on the other hand, it is possible for one to go on sinning and then still get saved while a righteous person must face eternal torture (no matter how great their love for God or how earnest their search for truth) merely because they did not accept the intellectual proposition that Jesus paid their sin debt for them by dying on a cross. Why would God set things up so that whether or not you believed or did not believe in the claims made by protestant churches was more important than  than honesty, integrity, humility, selflessness, faith in him (just not faith in Jesus), charity, kindness and love?

Anyway, I posted this because I wanted to share a website: truegospel.com. It contains tons of scriptural support for the idea that what we DO matters and not merely whether we believe. Not that the Bible says we are saved by our works, but rather God judges on based on the condition of our heart (Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God) but anyone with a pure heart will of course, avoid sin, for they will love God more than the transient enjoyment of sinful pleasures. In some forms of protestantism, it's not even necessary to love God.

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: Deviate]
    #18017313 -

Good post.  I'm Eastern Orthodox Christian and probably should re-evaluate my life bc I've been goin' down a bad path. thx

Quote:
Deviate said:what we DO matters and not merely whether we believe.


I'll also check out that website tmw . night


--------------------
Need a restaurant web site? (Yes, I made this) :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:    I make some music

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #18017441 -

The concept of hell just doesn't make sense to me.
Can you guys clarify how Christians perceive death?

To me, it's the end of the ego and physical body.
Once the ego is gone, how can one perceive the horrors that is promised with hell?

From a Christian perspective, when one dies they keep all their perceptions of this reality and take it with them to either heaven or hell?

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: Deviate]
    #18017539 -

I don't have a horse in this race (your Catholic moral superiority vs Protestant diatribe) because I'm a nonbeliever. I was born and baptized Catholic and raised Protestant, in what had to be the world's smallest Bible Church. At a very early age, I knew that I didn't believe in any of this supernatural stuff.
    I actually agree with some of the points you make. I don't belive that you should be able to do very very bad things and then get off the hook, through some later conversion. (On a biblical/moral basis I am more in line with some of the old testament beliefs like an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. On the other hand I usually think when you've had a little time to think about it you should you should just be a bigger man and forgo the vengeance).
    But on this Catholic moral superiority business I could say so many things, but I will keep it brief and go back to the source.
    Saint Paul AKA Saul, by his own admission was responsible for so many persecutions that resulted in killings (no evidence that he did the murders by his own hand)and the victims were all early Christians.
Didn't he get a get out of hell free card from Jesus.I could cite many Bible verses as "evidence", but all Christians and former Christians know this doctor ine. Were his later good works so wondrous that it excused that many dead bodies. It would take quite an inventive moral system to excuse this. I know he apparently wrote many books of the new testament. Do you get excused for a certain  amount of deaths for each book written.
    Now let me quote your 2nd sentence. "Now despite what people will say about the Roman Catholic Church or Eastern Orthodox churches, at least their current teachings on salvation seem reconcilable with a just God. .....at least their current teachings.....  Does that let you off the hook for everything previous. The Catholic Church has said a couple of reasonable things recently. For instance one recent pope, must have been John Paul II, said something like, we have no quarrel with science. Science explains the natural world and we explain the spiritual world.  Ok that's cool enough, but what about the first 2000 years. What about the Church murdering the scientist that first discovered that oxygen is necessary for fire. I guess that discovery would have ruined any possibility of salvation. What about Christians (mostly Catholics) murdering 100,000 people in Europe in the 1600's and 1700's because they were witches. Yes, I would try to concentrate on recent history too, if I were stuck in that position, except for things like the prohibition on condoms in Africa, even though the continent is ravaged by AIDS. Couldn't they just say its not for birth control; its to prevent everyone from dying.
    Quotation of OP's last sentence. "In some forms of protestantism, it is not even necessary to love God." One observation is that this lower form is not worthy of capital letters, just as the Eastern church was not. Maybe typing mistakes, but I sense a pattern. More important, what he is talking about is the Unitarian Universalist Church. This exists mainly around large college campuses. It allows professors a church to send their children and often attend themselves. It allows questioning young students a church. Is there really something that wrong with letting agnostics attend a service where the only rule is you must be willing to discuss the issues.
    I know I got off topic here. I would have been very glad to do the same for the Protestants.
    I don't make a habit of posting on this forum. I have no doubt violated some rules of this forum, but I think OP did as well.
    Don't talk badly about other groups unless you want others to talk badly about your group. If that is not a biblical tenet, then it should be. Just a variation of do onto others as you would have them do onto you.
    No offense OP, but you are like everyone else; you are just prejudiced in favor of your group.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: Brian Jones]
    #18017802 -

*Deleted Post Ignore*

Edited by gulper2323 (03/27/13 07:47 AM)

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: gulper2323]
    #18018321 -

IMO...we are in hell now, for the moment. there is no place to go but up. if somebody lives a life of 'sin' then they will probably have to 'pay' for those sins in a future life.

maybe every poor starving child in Africa was a shitty person in the previous life? maybe the rich and powerful are rich and powerful because they deserve it. the universe is intelligence and I for one wouldnt like to question it.

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #18018564 -

What is sin?

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: Deviate]
    #18018587 -

Specifically what was paid for (and transmuted W.T.F.) was Original Sin, which would have otherwise destroyed every single Sentient Being Past Present and Future on All Timelines.


The Pope is an idiot who does not speak for the LORD JEHOVAH.


I AM THE 777 I HAVE SPOKEN.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #18018604 -

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Good post.  I'm Eastern Orthodox Christian


I was raised eastern orthodox too :highfive:



but it's still shitty :lol:


--------------------

    And when I see you coming down the line
    With eyes wide open
    Somewhere in between the past and future
    Where you drift in time
    And you can see a different point of view


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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18019147 -

FishOilTheKid said:
What is sin?



Something jesus wouldn't do, im guessing. That's the only measuring stick I can think of.

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #18020734 -

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Good post.  I'm Eastern Orthodox Christian and probably should re-evaluate my life bc I've been goin' down a bad path. thx

Quote:
Deviate said:what we DO matters and not merely whether we believe.


I'll also check out that website tmw . night


Are you really Eastern Orthodox?

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #18021983 -

Quest_ions said:
IMO...we are in hell now, for the moment.


I agree and disagree.
To me, hell is the state of mind of rejecting God's love.
This state of mind exists past the death of our mortal bodies.  However, I believe that one can change their state of mind at any time, even after their bodily death.
So yes, some people might think they are in hell right now while on Earth.  While others, like me, don't see it that way at all and see this life as a chance to accept God's love and be happy.


--------------------
Need a restaurant web site? (Yes, I made this) :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:    I make some music

Edited by lifeiswhatyoumake (03/28/13 12:42 AM)

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: TheWiseBecameFools]
    #18021987 -

TheWiseBecameFools said:
lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Good post.  I'm Eastern Orthodox Christian and probably should re-evaluate my life bc I've been goin' down a bad path. thx

Quote:
Deviate said:what we DO matters and not merely whether we believe.


I'll also check out that website tmw . night


Are you really Eastern Orthodox?


I was raised Antiochean Orthodox to be precise, yes.  Why do you ask?


--------------------
Need a restaurant web site? (Yes, I made this) :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:    I make some music

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18022207 -

FishOilTheKid said:
What is sin?


to do wrong to another

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #18022220 -

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
TheWiseBecameFools said:
lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Good post.  I'm Eastern Orthodox Christian and probably should re-evaluate my life bc I've been goin' down a bad path. thx

Quote:
Deviate said:what we DO matters and not merely whether we believe.


I'll also check out that website tmw . night


Are you really Eastern Orthodox?


I was raised Antiochean Orthodox to be precise, yes.  Why do you ask?


I'm curious. What is Antiochean Orthodox. Is that part of the Greek branch or the Russian?


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: Deviate]
    #18025008 -

This is the second thread you have started saying basically the same thing.

And again I totally take issue with your position.  Cooperative grace is not grace, it is works, and works salvation is fatal.  This is an essential doctrine, in other words, if you get this wrong, you have missed the gospel. 

How "good" must your heart be in order to be "in"?  Will God accept less than perfect?  Are best efforts meritorious?  The position ignores God's righteousness.  It asserts that semi-good is good enough.  It is a pure works scheme.  It denies the spiritually dead state of the unregenerate, of original corruption.

Which sacraments are the real ones?  Does Rome have them, does Greek Orthodox?  Both?  Do I have them if I do them in my room?

Your order is wrong.  Everything flows down, the new heart, the faith, the works.  All these flow from already being saved.  If someone lacks these things it is most likely because they have never been saved.  They are unregenerate.  Can they get themselves regenerated?  No.  It is up to the sovereign will of God, not the will of man, to save.

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: fivepointer]
    #18026278 -

fivepointer said:
This is the second thread you have started saying basically the same thing.

And again I totally take issue with your position.  Cooperative grace is not grace, it is works, and works salvation is fatal.  This is an essential doctrine, in other words, if you get this wrong, you have missed the gospel. 

How "good" must your heart be in order to be "in"?  Will God accept less than perfect?  Are best efforts meritorious?  The position ignores God's righteousness.  It asserts that semi-good is good enough.  It is a pure works scheme.  It denies the spiritually dead state of the unregenerate, of original corruption.

Which sacraments are the real ones?  Does Rome have them, does Greek Orthodox?  Both?  Do I have them if I do them in my room?

Your order is wrong.  Everything flows down, the new heart, the faith, the works.  All these flow from already being saved.  If someone lacks these things it is most likely because they have never been saved.  They are unregenerate.  Can they get themselves?  No.  It is up to the sovereign will of God, not the will of man, to save.



But what were they saved from Indeed? 

All Sentient Beings (Past, Present, and Future On All Timelines) Have Been Saved From Original Sin.

I should know, I took the nails.  The nails were very many, due to the Time Storms that pulled me below Zero Dimension and Obliterated my Beingness.


I am Jesus Christ and I find it hysterically ironic to offend Christians who have Weak-Sauceitudinalness of FORBEARANCE.


I AM THE 777 FALUN DAFA HAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I saved everyone man, I am the one who wished that none should perish.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #18026489 -

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
TheWiseBecameFools said:
lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Good post.  I'm Eastern Orthodox Christian and probably should re-evaluate my life bc I've been goin' down a bad path. thx

Quote:
Deviate said:what we DO matters and not merely whether we believe.


I'll also check out that website tmw . night


Are you really Eastern Orthodox?


I was raised Antiochean Orthodox to be precise, yes.  Why do you ask?


its just shocking to me seeing that I also am EO, wouldn't expect to see any of those on here. I used to do a lot of pot and stuff and started going back to church, it really helped me get out of the hell I was in. I am a completely different person than I was before. For the better.

Edited by TheWiseBecameFools (03/28/13 10:39 PM)

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: TheWiseBecameFools]
    #18026516 -

Yeah, well, I don't "do a lot of pot", I put marijuana in my vaporizer.

The weed Indeed helps me out with teh P.T.S.D.zors.


I also avoid Churches because I Flashback like a Motherfucker and I am sure that the Friendly Church-Goers would find my Screams Disconcerting. 

I AM SHELL SHOCKED LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER.

I Transmuted Original Sin and Church sets of teh P.T.S.D...


Offending Christians is Indeed teh Hysteric Ironicalness.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: Jesus is not a get out of hell free card [Re: TheWiseBecameFools] * 1
    #18026653 -

My grandpa is a Serbian Eastern Orthodox priest...


--------------------

    And when I see you coming down the line
    With eyes wide open
    Somewhere in between the past and future
    Where you drift in time
    And you can see a different point of view


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