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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #17980152 -

JesusIsLord said:
This whole story doesn't make sense.

No human could do what he did and smile in the courtroom.



It does make sense.

A common response for someone in an emotionally intense environment is dissociate. Blocking out emotions and replace them with a thin layer of anxiety.

When I was in therapy, we were doing an activity in which we recounted events in our past. 90% of the participants teared up or cried. I had the most intense history, and the only emotion I displayed was very mild amusement.


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14:31

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: smack]
    #17980162 -

smack said:
JesusIsLord said:
This whole story doesn't make sense.

No human could do what he did and smile in the courtroom.



It does make sense.

A common response for someone in an emotionally intense environment is dissociate. Blocking out emotions and replace them with a thin layer of anxiety.

When I was in therapy, we were doing an activity in which we recounted events in our past. 90% of the participants teared up or cried. I had the most intense history, and the only emotion I displayed was very mild amusement.


Ok, and did you murder 3 people?


--------------------


And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: smack] * 1
    #17980169 -

Dude that guy's on permanent feelings dissociation; it's called sociopathy and he's beyond any psychiatric help.  I highly doubt it's a defense mechanism and if it is then it'll be really funny when the reality of what the rest of his life holds in store--absolutely nothing.

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17980190 -

JoieDeVivre said:
I'm so torn about this. Obviously the kid should be punished but wishing violence on him and getting pleasure out of the idea is doing exactly what he does.

Clearly the kid is very mentally fucked up, if he had gotten help for his issues or had decent parents none of these kids would have been killed. Obviously he doesn't even have a grasp on cause and effect or have any sense of empathy.

Imagine yourself being in this kid's position, ACTUALLY in his mind not with your own morality. He's so disconnected from reality and being raped in prison isn't going to fix that or make reparations for anything that he has done. I think a better option would be intensive therapy (nothing more expensive than keeping him in prison ideally) so that he DOES feel some remorse for what he has done and so that the parents of the victims can get some closure.

We need to be preemptive as a society on this sort of thing. After the fact punishment doesn't do anything to prevent it from happening again unfortunately.


You know, there are many mentally fucked up people out there and 99.99% of them do not run out and kill people. I'm sorry but he'll get no sympathy from me. His ass should fry.

Oh, and by the way, if the death penalty was such an "easy out" compared to life in prison- then why does everyone fight tooth and nail for years and years to avoid it? Prison in this country is a freaking joke.

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: abltsandwich]
    #17980200 -

abltsandwich said:
What a bunch of hippy-feelgood crap.  Like anyone should be concerned with his well being at this point.  He's gonna rot and get gang raped in prison and that thought makes me a little happy.

Dude that guy's on permanent feelings dissociation; it's called sociopathy and he's beyond any psychiatric help.  I highly doubt it's a defense mechanism and if it is then it'll be really funny when the reality of what the rest of his life holds in store--absolutely nothing.


Being happy that violence is perpetrated is exactly what drove this kid to kill people, you're on his level right now.

I'm not concerned with his well being but as a rational person I can see that when something is wrong, we can learn from it and use that knowledge to prevent future problems of the same type. It's not hippy feelgood crap, it's intellectually driven.

Who are you to say he's beyond psychiatric help? It always amazes me when people with no education in a given subject think they know best. You highly doubt it's a defense mechanism? ANY mental health professional would disagree with you, it's well known that this is a defense mechanism.

It's disgusting that you relish in someone else's pain, especially someone who is obviously disconnected from reality. You're no better than this kid who was relishing in the pain of others.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #17980207 -

JesusIsLord said:
smack said:
JesusIsLord said:
This whole story doesn't make sense.

No human could do what he did and smile in the courtroom.



It does make sense.

A common response for someone in an emotionally intense environment is dissociate. Blocking out emotions and replace them with a thin layer of anxiety.

When I was in therapy, we were doing an activity in which we recounted events in our past. 90% of the participants teared up or cried. I had the most intense history, and the only emotion I displayed was very mild amusement.


Ok, and did you murder 3 people?


No, but if you've experienced dissociation in a similar environment it's very easy to recognize. His grins and laughter occurred during the more intense statements from the families. Likely meaning intensified anxiety.

@abltsandwich:  Not sure if sociopathy correlates with dissociation, they are very similar but the element of anxiety is something that makes me wonder. Joie is studying psychiatry, maybe she knows. :shrug:

I'm not interested in defending this guy, what he did was fucked up. I'm just having fun analyzing his mental state.


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14:31

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: JoieDeVivre] * 3
    #17980238 -

I don't care if that makes me "better" or "worse" than him; but one thing is certain:  I didn't shoot up a school then mock the parents of the dead kids.  So there's that.  And you don't know what drove the kid to kill anyone.  Whether or not he's beyond help is totally irrelevant because he doesn't deserve help.  I hope the rest of his life is fucking miserable.

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: setb]
    #17980243 -

Quote:
It's not hippy feelgood crap, it's intellectually driven


You fancy yourself an intellectual but it's really hippy crap :p.

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: setb] * 1
    #17980259 -

abltsandwich said:
I don't care if that makes me "better" or "worse" than him; but one thing is certain:  I didn't shoot up a school.  So there's that.  And you don't know what drove the kid to kill anyone.  Whether or not he's beyond help is totally irrelevant because he doesn't deserve help.  I hope the rest of his life is fucking miserable.


You don't care that it makes you just as bad as him? He also didn't care that his hateful attitude effected others, that's how this happened.

He doesn't deserve help? No one is talking about getting him help for his own benefit. I'm saying we can learn from observing the defects in his brain. I'm saying we can learn from the signs that everyone else missed to help prevent this from happening again. I'm also saying that the parents of the victims deserve an apology and they deserve to know that their children's deaths were not in vain and that we were able to learn something from the situation rather than just killing the kid or letting him be raped the rest of his miserable life and being done with it.

The reason we have so many school shootings? We never really learn from them. We're enthralled momentarily and then we forget about it until the next one. This needs to stop. These are all 100% preventable.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17980278 -

In my opinion, the reason we have school shootings is because of the massive amount of press they get after they happen.  But I don't think there's anything that's 100% preventable.  If someone wants to haul off and do some crazy shit they're going to find a way.

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17980309 -

JoieDeVivre said:
These are all 100% preventable.


apparently not

it is mind blowing that you are comparing him to those who wish ill for him; when in reality every single individual connected to the victim in some way harnesses these feelings.

it is irrational to believe that every one of these situations are preventable

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: SoreSpore]
    #17980353 -

The initial reason that school shootings happen is not because of the press. A person has to get to a really high level of mental illness before they decide that killing people and ruining their whole life is worth a few days of press coverage which leads the entire country to wish for his violent death.

SoreSpore said:
JoieDeVivre said:
These are all 100% preventable.


apparently not

it is mind blowing that you are comparing him to those who wish ill for him; when in reality every single individual connected to the victim in some way harnesses these feelings.

it is irrational to believe that every one of these situations are preventable


People connected to the victims have a reason to be emotionally incensed, but even those people aren't relishing in the idea of him being raped they're just wishing for reparation.

You don't think that if everyone with mental illness had adequate care there wouldn't be any school shootings? Maybe 100% is going a little far but I think a huge percentage are preventable, especially those committed by young people.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17980391 -

all i'm getting at is that you are belittling the violent nature of distorted humans. i completely agree with you that killing someone doesn't do anything positive for anyone, but imprisonment or isolation away from general population for sociopaths is essential if they are murdering them.

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: setb]
    #17980400 -

Quote:
A person has to get to a really high level of mental illness before they decide that killing people and ruining their whole life is worth a few days of press coverage which leads the entire country to wish for his violent death.



Man, there really are people just that twisted and deranged, sad to say. There are some sick, sick fucks in this world and when they get pushed to the edge, when they think there is nothing left...

I'd say the Batman shooter is a good example.

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: setb] * 2
    #17980418 -

I'm not belittling his violent nature, you're reading into my posts what isn't there. He's violent, deranged and sociopathic, I agree. I think that we should learn from this and we should not allow him to infect us with malice and hatred, which is exactly what he wants when he's flipping off people and acting like an ass in court.

Where did I ever suggest he shouldn't be imprisoned or isolated? I'm saying we should examine him, use him for the benefit of society and understand that he's not EVIL or inhuman, he's just fucked up which is something we can tackle and prevent. When people say that killers are just evil and we can't stop them, it gives them the power and makes us reactive rather than proactive.
setb said:
Quote:
A person has to get to a really high level of mental illness before they decide that killing people and ruining their whole life is worth a few days of press coverage which leads the entire country to wish for his violent death.



Man, there really are people just that twisted and deranged, sad to say. There are some sick, sick fucks in this world and when they get pushed to the edge, when they think there is nothing left...

I'd say the Batman shooter is a good example.


I'd agree but there's something we can do to stop people from getting to this point. A person isn't born a killer, they're shaped into a killer through their life experiences. This is especially true when we look at school shootings perpetrated by young people. Adults are often a different story because, like you said, they're often so far deranged that it's hard to reverse.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17980469 -

JoieDeVivre said:
I'm so torn about this. Obviously the kid should be punished but wishing violence on him and getting pleasure out of the idea is doing exactly what he does.

Clearly the kid is very mentally fucked up, if he had gotten help for his issues or had decent parents none of these kids would have been killed. Obviously he doesn't even have a grasp on cause and effect or have any sense of empathy.

Imagine yourself being in this kid's position, ACTUALLY in his mind not with your own morality. He's so disconnected from reality and being raped in prison isn't going to fix that or make reparations for anything that he has done. I think a better option would be intensive therapy (nothing more expensive than keeping him in prison ideally) so that he DOES feel some remorse for what he has done and so that the parents of the victims can get some closure.

We need to be preemptive as a society on this sort of thing. After the fact punishment doesn't do anything to prevent it from happening again unfortunately.



You're such a sweet girl. Unfortunately though, we are trillions of dollars in debt so something like intense therapy for a piece of shit like him so that he feels bad isn't going to happen.

He's a sick animal. He should be put down like a sick animal. Not cruelly. Just a huge dose of barbital and be done with him so he isn't a burden to the tax payers. Fuck him.


Quote:
it gives them the power and makes us reactive rather than proactive.


Like arming teachers and allow conceal carry for people 21 and over? That's real world version of proactive. He was born ill. When we live in a utopia where our primary focus financially can be how do we prevent these things genetically, that will be an amazing day. Some people though, are born fucked up.


--------------------
:tigerbunny:

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17980478 -

JoieDeVivre said:
trekie said:
Too bad ohio doesnt have the death plenty :shrug:


What good would the death penalty do? I never understand why people want the death penalty for horrendous crimes. It would be getting off easy for the kid anyway, life in prison is WAY worse than just ending life. Life in prison means you are actually paying for what you have done. Now, I know US prisons aren't ideal for this because they're all about for profit work but ideally a prison should make it's inmates give back to the society they harmed.

It's often more expensive than housing them in prison and there's no chance for us to LEARN about what the hell is wrong with these people so we can identify and fix it early.


nahh fuck that. i say we just kill all the killers


--------------------
ONE-EYED WANT
-------------------------
knock a hoe out this dimension, continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie
rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, shLong, ModestMouse, vinsue, big worm (sketch), tim

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: JoieDeVivre] * 3
    #17980532 -

withoutawire said:
Quote:
it gives them the power and makes us reactive rather than proactive.


Like arming teachers and allow conceal carry for people 21 and over? That's real world version of proactive. He was born ill. When we live in a utopia where our primary focus financially can be how do we prevent these things genetically, that will be an amazing day. Some people though, are born fucked up.



How do you know he was born ill?


Funny how every serial killer you look into has the saem crap in childhood: abandonment, abuse, often sexual abuse (often by their mothers or other women) and then they turn out to be fruitcakes.

I don't think its a coincidence.  As a child you have very little opportunity to escape- its a crime to run away and a crime to disobey.  They're fucked.

JoieDeVivre said:
Where did I ever suggest he shouldn't be imprisoned or isolated? I'm saying we should examine him, use him for the benefit of society and understand that he's not EVIL or inhuman, he's just fucked up which is something we can tackle and prevent. When people say that killers are just evil and we can't stop them, it gives them the power and makes us reactive rather than proactive.



The condmenation seems to have more to do with people wanting to exhalt themselves, imo.  It feels good to look back on teh shitty things you've done in your life and realize you would never have done what this kid did- everyone's a saint in comparison.  This allows even dirtbags to act all morally outraged.

A lot of this is just a show- more tribalism, more making a lower class to spit on, et cet.

Revenge isn't practical.

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: johnm214]
    #17980710 -

Seems pretty fucked up. I don't know how they get that way, the environment must just rip your emotions to shreds in some cases. Something goes wrong early in life and you don't recover, you just accumulate failures.

But I think he's going to stop his little angst trip under this psychological disorder, get to say, 22, 25, and go, "FFFFUUUUUUUUUU------"


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Re: Ohio School shooter curses at and flips off families at sentencing [Re: circastes]
    #17980756 -

circastes said:
Seems pretty fucked up. I don't know how they get that way, the environment must just rip your emotions to shreds in some cases. Something goes wrong early in life and you don't recover, you just accumulate failures.

But I think he's going to stop his little angst trip under this psychological disorder, get to say, 22, 25, and go, "FFFFUUUUUUUUUU------"


seriously. dude has no idea the immense suffering he is in for.


--------------------


And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

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