Icelander said:

Most men would gladly lick their balls if they could but reach them.

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Hahahahahahaha good point

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I realized the same thing about you.

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Most men would gladly lick their balls if they could but reach them.

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With how old and stretchy your getting it should become a more realistic possibility.

Cactilove said:

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I realized the same thing about you.

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Most men would gladly lick their balls if they could but reach them.

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With how old and stretchy your getting it should become a more realistic possibility.

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But it's balanced out by getting less flexible.

Mr Person said:

CuriousPsycho, here you go again with your unfounded assumptions, throwing your ignorance up as proof of your beliefs.  You seem to think your every opinion is a priori truth.  It's obvious your belief in human souls and special qualities of human consciousness are simply pillars of your Christian faith, which thrives on anthropocentrism. However that doesn't mean they are obviously and automatically true for the rest of us. 

Do you speak elephant?  Do you speak sloth?  Have you experienced the consciousness of a orca firsthand, Being John Malkovich style?  If not then how the fuck do you know what goes on in their brains?  The fact is you don't even know that human consciousness exists outside of your own mind.  For all you know, everyone you've ever met is a philosophical zombie in your own little make believe universe. There is evidence however that animals do experience a very similar consciousness to our own, especially those animals closest to us in evolutionary history (which makes sense to us non-Christians who believe in evolution)

What you don't seem to know about animal intelligence has filled many books.  You should educate yourself. Higher order mammals (apes, pachyderms, and ceteceans)  all demonstrate analogues to human consciousness to various degrees.  Apes and elephants (and even dogs and horses) have been known to create paintings in captivity that anyone with any aesthetic sensibility would clearly see as art.  Whale songs are beautiful and endlessly diverse as they constantly mutate and change based on interaction between different social groups.  All of the species in these orders have demonstrated self awareness through mirror tests, have rudimentary culture in their social groups, many use tools, mourn their dead, they demonstrate altruism and form family bonds.  It's very simplistic and chauvinistic to assume that human consciousness is somehow "better" than animal consciousness just because you enjoy and are especially familiar with human inventions.  Of course you think humans are the best, you're a fucking human, and it's all you know.

And just because humans create computers does not automatically mean we have the monopoly on imagination or any sort of special holy consciousness.  Is it "advanced" to blindly extend human life spans and saturate our environment with chemicals to the point where we see the explosion of cancers that were unknown only 100 years ago?  Is it "advanced" to fragment human communities and social dynamics that evolved over millions of years to the point where most of our interactions with one another occur through abstracted electronic mediums?  And we wonder why everyone seems to have chemical imbalances requiring medications that didn't even exist 20 years ago.

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CuriousPsychonaut said:

How I know shouldn't even be a question. The fact that you and me are sitting here over the internet discussing how advanced our species' consciousness is how I know. When you see a group of elephants sitting down and discussing the meaning of life, call me and tell me I don't know that humans have the most advanced consciousness on the planet.

Once again, call me when  you see a group of sloths painting the Mona Lisa, or constructing an aircraft, then maybe I will say they have our ability to translate their imaginative reveries (which they most likely do not have) into art, and literature.

Again I know that animals do not, because because animals clearly do not demonstrate the abilities or evidence they do. I don't know what you are trying to prove to me? That animals may have the same advanced form of consciousness that we do? If they did surely we have been able to figure that out by know. While I suppose that is true we can not definitively know for sure, lets be realistic here. The evidence that they would have anything even CLOSE to our form consciousness, is slim to none. If you provide me evidence otherwise, I would love to see it, and I would happily be more open to the possibility that my dog who constantly licks his balls and asshole, really inside of his dog mind, has consciousness far more advanced then humans know.

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CuriousPsychonaut said:

What I was trying to say, no matter how much "evidence" you throw at me, the implication is that humans have displayed greater consciousness capabilities repeatedly through history through our invention of technology, language, art, and literature, and that is why humans hold the key to either the planets prosperity or destruction. Measure that against any song that a whale sings or any monkey that brushes some color on a canvas. I also recognize that our species has majorly fucked up along the way.

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CuriousPsychonaut said:

What I was trying to say, no matter how much "evidence" you throw at me, the implication is that humans have displayed greater consciousness capabilities repeatedly through history through our invention of technology, language, art, and literature, and that is why humans hold the key to either the planets prosperity or destruction. Measure that against any song that a whale sings or any monkey that brushes some color on a canvas.

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CuriousPsychonaut said:

no biological life form posses the advanced form of consciousness that we do

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I'd like to observe that it's clear that you are confused about the meaning of the word consciousness, considering the manner in which you're attempting to compare the level of consciousness of humans, in general, to the level of consciousness of animals.

I think the simplest way of demonstrating this confusion is to highlight the definition of the word consciousness itself, which is essentially that of awareness of one's own existence, of sensations, thoughts, and surroundings, awareness of something for what it is.

The measuring stick you want to use to determine level of consciousness is the degree to which one's behavior is advanced, or its complexity, or its consequences, it seems. I have to point out, though, that this is merely an assumption on your part - you haven't provided any evidence that shows that development of a set of more complex and influential behavior is synonymous with possessing a greater degree of consciousness.

There is a difference between a state of consciousness and the way in which this state of consciousness manifests itself through behavior. You can't determine the degree to which a given being or system or what have you is conscious and the nature of that consciousness only through making assessments of it's behavior, or output. These assessments risk being far too arbitrary to begin with, favoring one's own way of being and acting. How are you going to quantify the degree to which a being is conscious of its own existence, of all the sensory information its biological configuration provides it and the inherent balance that exists within all of that, exactly?

I readily acknowledge the demonstrated superiority that human beings have exhibited in the sheer degree of complexity and power of influence of their ability to take action. In fact I rejoice in it as I deliberately seek out to flex all of these capabilities to their fullest myself. Yet I don't confuse the capability of action and the acknowledgment that there is also an inherent consciousness amongst the exercise of all this action as what determines the level of consciousness of something. Any insight that I have into the nature of consciousness suggests that this would be foolish.

I don't believe that consciousness of existence - of one's own, or of existence itself, is synonymous with abstract conception of aspects of that existence, or with abilities to take action within that existence. Consciousness is by nature an inner experience. Clues as to the depth or profoundness or expansiveness or quality of that experience may or may not manifest for others to perceive.