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Re: Asexuality [Re: Ped] * 1
    #17636403 -

This doesn't concern sexuality, I explored Kant a little bit today, and I was reminded of you (so I'm bumping this). You once asked what the point of life would be if suffering never ended. Well, I think your conception of suffering may not be clear. I do not believe enlightenment frees a person from pain. Did you know the Buddha was reputed to have suffered later in life from back pain? I think it's immature to pursue a path in the hopes that all the world's little boo-boos will go away. Enlightenment isn't about an ending of pain per se, it's about liberation from what conflicts with the eightfold path of right action. The term "suffering" is best translated as dissatisfaction rather than pain, it is dissatisfaction with enslavement to desire. However, it is not desire itself which causes dissatisfaction, it is enslavement to it that is the cause of dissatisfaction. It is "freedom from attachment to desire" which ends what they call "suffering", not elimination of desire itself. A person must have a great desire to become a Buddha, even though Buddhas are not attached to desire.

Kant considered moral metaphysical enslavement to be to "nature", or cause and effect. Enslavement to him was the illusion of being able to always control the effects brought of one's actions. His philosophy was based on escaping enslavement to the illusion of control over cause and effect.

He postulated that there are two approaches to action, acting by the hypothetical imperative or by the categorical imperative. Hypothetical imperative merely concerns the ends of an action and is amoral (give medicine to heal, give poison to kill). On the other hand, categorical imperative concerns the principle behind an action (i.e. should I heal or kill?). One way Kant theorized we could judge our own actions would be to seriously consider if what we do would be universally just for someone else to do in the same situation. We can never know absolutely if what we do is good or bad, but doing this will at least give an idea of whether we are doing something simply for personal desire, or whether it is a categorical imperative (i.e. it's good to keep promises, but if kidnappers let you out for a stroll saying "just promise to come back", it would generally be considered a just action for anyone to bolt).

It is impossible to know whether one's actual action will be good or bad, but we can know the principle we act by, so the only "good" there can be, is good will. If we do something that seemed good to do, but it turned out to be bad, we still acted "good" in doing it, and if we do something with a bad intention and it becomes something good, we are still "bad". Example: In the Dark Knight, Batman's categorical imperative was to save Gotham's protector, Harvey Dent. Even though Batman did save him, it was by accident; the joker had given Batman a choice between saving his girlfriend and saving Dent, and he chased after his girl, neglecting his duty to serve the people of Gotham. In the end, the joker had only been testing him, and had switched them up. He ended up performing the action he was supposed to, but it wasn't his choice to. Thus action is not good or evil, but one's will is.

Hypothetical imperative itself is not wrong, it is only when a hypothetical imperative contradicts a categorical imperative that it becomes wrong. The world is based in cause and effect, and we do still perform actions, and try to judge the results of these actions. The only illusion, is the idea of controlling these effects. There is no control over effect, there is only control over intention of one's cause. Intention is all you can be judged on.

Not being attached to desire does not mean an end to desire! Desire never ends, only enslavement to it can. Freedom from attachment to desire by following the eightfold path of doing what is "right" (categorical imperative) rather than only what is desired (hypothetical imperative), is NOT an end to pain! It is an end to what Buddhists called "suffering", but "suffering" means dissatisfaction from enslavement, not "pain"; the two are distinct.

Enlightenment can sometimes even cause more pain than lessening it, I think. Reflect on those monks that burned themselves in Vietnam. True, they reportedly didn't flinch. But I do not for a moment believe that they were spared any agony, even if they were able to control their disposition. I believe people can shut off their sense of pain, but I do not believe they did. If they were able to shut that pain off, it would sort of invalidate the act I think. Buddhas embrace pain, because to them no amount of "pain" in the world is worse than what we translate as "suffering", the enslavement to desire which conflicts with what is right. Freedom from attachment to desire, or hypothetical imperative, is possible by practicing the eightfold path of doing "right", or "categorical imperative".

Edited by Space Monkey (01/30/13 06:01 PM)

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Space Monkey]
    #17637671 -

Space Monkey said:
Reflect on those monks that burned themselves in Vietnam. True, they reportedly didn't flinch. But I do not for a moment believe that they were spared any agony, even if they were able to control their disposition.


Great post and I particularly agree with this.  :thumbup:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Ped]
    #17639877 -

Sexuality, for me, is a very small part of the companionship that loving people can bring. I don't think of sexuality as necessary, but I will admit I have craved it in some form or another, almost every day.

I am not sure of what the reason is for desiring sex, as I tend to think that I do not desire to have children. I also don't see myself as someone who feels the desire to dominate or submit to another person. There are surely other possible reasons for a desire for sex, but in general I don't know if I hold any reason very closely.

The desire can be reduced to terms like "My dick gets hard and I want to fuck something." or "Hormones lead to the desire." but I don't personally subscribe to those, although I have to some degree to feel comfortable in temporarily satisfying a desire.

Sometimes I think it could perhaps be doubt in my non-subscription to any of the reasons for the desire for sex. Perhaps being somewhat opposed to those ideas I lead myself off balance and resolve the feelings by breaking my own "rules."

Now after writing this it comes to mind that I have do not have justification to have these thoughts against the various reasons to desire sex. And after writing that, I still don't know if not unbalancing my thoughts will lead to losing my desire for sex. It might, but I am not sure I want to stop desiring sex either. The reason that comes to mind that I don't know if my partner would understand a lack of desire for sex, perhaps thinking it was due to a lack of attraction towards her. I am not sure of the role attraction in the continued desire for sex. I don't know what attraction is, really. I have wanted to have sex with my partner and I could call this attraction, but the reasons for it I do not know. I also would not want to deprive my partner of sex if she desired it, and I feel as though if I had no desire for it I might not be up to the task.

So seeing as how I have no reason to leave my partner, and I don't desire to deprive my partner which might lead her to leaving me, I don't desire to stop wanting sex. Looking at what I've written here it seems I may continue to have sex due to a desire for attachment with my partner, but at the same time, if I were to give up sex and my partner left I am not sure I would desire to remain celibate, although it has come to mind previously that I could do so if it ever would happen. I've had the thought of remaining celibate and turning sexual advances of others into platonic feelings. I don't think I would feel guilty in doing so, as I might from acting on desire without reason. I don't have a desire to pursue such a life, but I have thought about it.

Right now I feel comfortable in my relationship and am comforted by the company of my partner, I also enjoy the benefit of being with someone who checks my rash thoughts before I adopt them into my thinking, and likewise I enjoy doing the same to/for her. I don't know why I desire to have a force in my life to urge reconsideration of ideas, but I feel as though I have been lead to refine my thinking in ways that have only helped me to see more clearly what I want to do with my life. Perhaps I would be just as content chasing women and having sex for enjoyment, but for some reason I am not aware of, I want more from life than that, or at least, I do not desire the potential rollercoaster of emotions that such a life could result in. I could seclude myself in a temple and avoid all of these attachments, and in doing so obtain a personal state of peace, but leaving a world that I could change to help others to live more peacefully, sustainably, and freely, is something that I think could cloud the experience.

I have read that it is easy to be enlightened on the mountaintop. It is when one returns to the village that one's enlightenment is tested. I do not know if there is anything to such a statement, but in any case, I do not desire to make things less difficult for myself for the sake of personal comfort. Sure, if everyone lived as a monk there would be many fewer dangers and suffering in this world, but I do not know how I could bring on such a change as a monk. I don't know if I would even desire to live in a world where every person was monastic. In any case, I do have a plan for how I can turn this world of sometimes great excess and greed into one that would turn excess and greed into waste that would not be so easily supported, and without forcing anyone's hand or making the world less free. I won't get too far into the plan, as I have described it here before, but it involves the concept of non-profit capitalism, where businesses could compete in a free market, regulated by nonprofit laws, to offer goods and services that for-profit businesses currently offer, but without the unjustified notion that those who guide those companies must become rich in order to be motivated to do so.

Edited by xFrockx (01/30/13 07:44 PM)

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Re: Asexuality [Re: xFrockx]
    #17640173 -

Some interesting posts SpaceMonkey and Frock, I enjoyed reading them.

My personal stance:

Don't want kids, don't want long-term relationship
Want to have fun, but don't want to need sex to enjoy my life

Haven't had sex in 6 months (basically in a hermitage at the moment) but don't miss sex at all. When I'm out again I'll enjoy sex but know from experience I'll never be deprived of my happiness from it. All one really needs is a strong backbone

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17640248 -

Does this include no masturbation in this 6 months?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Icelander]
    #17640273 -

Icelander said:
Does this include no masturbation in this 6 months?


Try 6 hours lol

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17640349 -

That's no big deal then.

I have now gone 85 days with no kind of sex whatsoever.  When I was a kid your age just to see if I had what it takes I made 100 days.  I plan on going past that this time.  The longer I go the less it intrudes into my awareness.  Personally if I never thought about it or had the urge again I'd be happier for it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Icelander]
    #17640361 -

Well thats cool in my book as long as you don't feel deprived

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17640379 -

I do at times.  I let it pass because I've wasted enough of my life mono focused on my sex drive.  Hell, who knows, maybe there's more to life. I'm curious to see if it will go away for good. At my age that might happen.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Icelander]
    #17640413 -

When sex becomes too big its definitely a negative, it doesn't occupy my mind more than maybe an hour a day but used to be a 24/7 deal and that sucked.

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17642214 -

I can offer this much; for males, sex drive and the ability to perform sex are both linked to the production of Testosterone, as is muscle growth.

In most males, Testosterone production begins to increase around age 12, peaks around age 18 and starts to decline slowly around the mid-twenties.  By the mid-fifties, it is very significantly reduced, and often issues related to insufficient testosterone begin to intrude on a man's life, including  Erectile dysfunction, prostrate enlargement  and loss of muscle mass.

Google will tell you all these things, and being 73, I can attest from personal experience that they are fairly accurate, as far as that goes.  I'm not positive, but I believe that the explanation for most men shrinking (e.g., I was 5' 10.5" for most of my life, but by this age, I'm only 5' 9") is related to the decline in testosterone production.

In my youth I was driven by sexual desire, I felt like I'd go insane if I didn't have sexual release at least twice a day, and that lasted well into my late 60s although it was noticeably decreased in both intensity and imperative. 

Today, because I've been taking one form or another of chemotherapy for since late '09 (and that truly interferes with and distorts one's biochemistry to the point where sex is a non-issue) what would be normal for me, based upon my testosterone levels.

As testosterone production declines, so does the urgency of the sex drive, which makes it easier for some men to treat sex with varying degrees of indifference.  It has not done that for me, but it has produced an enlarged prostate that makes me get up to urinate several times a night, and it has caused erectile dysfunction, that is, erections are not as hard as I am accustomed to from my youth.  Thankfully, there are drugs that help with that.  Also, I still have sexual desire (even with chemo,) but it no longer is imperative.

Anyone who is over 50 and experiencing a noticably reduced sex drive should see a physician and be checked for testosterone levels, they can be raised significantly by a number of means.  I can't do this because of the cancer (testosterone enhances rapidly growing cells, and cancer cells are rapidly growing cells) but most will benefit from testosterone enhancement.

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Rool Kat]
    #17642337 -

My sex drive is just starting to diminish at 60. Personally I've spurted out buckets of cum in my life and would rather think about something else for a change. When the urge comes up and it still does often I've learned to ignore it for a few hours and it usually goes away then for days. Repeat and rinse.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Icelander]
    #17642813 -

Icelander said:
That's no big deal then.

I have now gone 85 days with no kind of sex whatsoever.  When I was a kid your age just to see if I had what it takes I made 100 days.  I plan on going past that this time.  The longer I go the less it intrudes into my awareness.  Personally if I never thought about it or had the urge again I'd be happier for it.



Does that 85 day stint include no masturbation ?

I hear if the pipes don't get cleared out every so often it can lead to prostate troubles , I wounder if theirs any truth to that or just more BS.


--------------------

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Withinity]
    #17642932 -

No sex of any kind as I said.  Well the Dali Lama is an old man and never had any sex that I know of.  It may be a problem but at my age I could give a shit.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Icelander]
    #17643112 -

neither celibacy nor sexual excess results in the "liberation" that both parties speak of. to me, REAL sexual liberation is the middlespace between "too much" and "too little" sexual pleasure in one's life. (solo, partner, any sort of sex act)

what i've found is that ONE sexual act per week, is the perfect amount for me. when i do it only 1x a week i have 6 days where i can focus ALL my energy on other things besides sex. but at the same time, i'm still giving myself the natural sexual release that i need.

i agree with Ped in the sense that sex is overrated. but i don't think it's possible to eliminate it from human life...we are biological beings after all, and SOME sort of sexual release is necessary to maintain balance, physically and emotionally. what you resist, persists...if you try to repress sex it will find a way to express itself!!! sometimes with a vengeance :evil:

btw, how are you doing with that "no-sex pleasure" thing Ped? does the temptation ever arise?  :devil: or have you stayed celibate this whole time?

Edited by resonant111 (01/31/13 12:25 PM)

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Re: Asexuality [Re: resonant111]
    #17666593 -

man you're a mess. :lol: is your whole life walking the razors edge like that?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Icelander]
    #17676293 -

Icelander said:
man you're a mess. :lol: is your whole life walking the razors edge like that?


i'm not on some razor's edge path, lol. i just make one day my "sex day" and that's that. i don't think it's necessary, or even beneficial to have sex more than 1x a week. it's no different from "drinkers" who choose their one day out of the week to drink. neither excess nor lack provide balance. i'm just trying to be balanced brah.

:boomboom:


--------------------

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Re: Asexuality [Re: resonant111]
    #17676617 -

Shit I drink everyday, a sip of wine every few hours (like a cup a day) keeps the demons away.

If sex comes up I have sex or masturbate as soon as convenient, it only takes like 20 minutes once or twice a day. Not doing so is like not shitting, if I just shit when I have to theres nothing to think about

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Re: Asexuality [Re: resonant111]
    #17676646 -

resonant111 said:
Icelander said:
man you're a mess. :lol: is your whole life walking the razors edge like that?


i'm not on some razor's edge path, lol. i just make one day my "sex day" and that's that. i don't think it's necessary, or even beneficial to have sex more than 1x a week. it's no different from "drinkers" who choose their one day out of the week to drink. neither excess nor lack provide balance. i'm just trying to be balanced brah.

:boomboom:


Reminds me of adults who have date night whether they feel like it or not and then go through the motions.  You realize there's no spontaneity to what you are doing. That would seem to be an important factor in sexual activity.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Asexuality [Re: Ped]
    #17676685 -

Nope, loving and having feelings for a woman is a great thing.
I used to be asexual, took some LSD now im good.

You really dont want to be asexual, i had autism my entire life which includes asexuality, brain retardtion, adhd, lack of motivation lack of concentration, i still do but to a lesser extent, cannabis and mushrooms help greatly.
LSD is god to the aspie, but thats if you're strong enough to fight reptilians.

From my intel asexuality,homosexuality, its caused by trauma to the 5HT2A receptors in the brain and the way serotonin interacts with it, most people with autism like me are that way, bhuddism is not something you want to involve yourself in, its a reptilian engineered concept like all religions are.

LSD corrects whatever problem is there in the brain and the great effects linger on weeks post trip.

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