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Re: Depression [Re: Ped]
    #17491462 -

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: Ped]
    #17491563 -

Quote:
Simply because someone is a charlatan does not mean that there is nothing to learn from them, nor does it mean that all of what they say is empty.  A charlatan is someone claiming to have special knowledge or skill where no such special knowledge or skill actually exists.  It does not take special knowledge or skill to present lectures from which people learn awesome stuff, but Deepak Chopra would have us believe that he possesses special knowledge and skill.  This is by design.  Those who come away from his lectures and writings having learned awesome stuff also come away feeling that Deepak Chopra has special knowledge or skill.  This is by design.  In fact, he has based his life of material glut on such design.  This qualifies him as a charlatan.

If Deepak Chopra were sincere to his spiritual claims, this kind of thing would not aggregate around his personality.


Not sure I agree. What exact knowledge or skill is being alleged from Chopra's side?

It's probably important to know that I never paid a dime for his stuff, I'm not groupie as it were, just learned a few things from it. I am aware he didn't come up with the Doshas, he just rephrased and explained some age-old Ayurveda info. He did do a great job of it, both formulating and disseminating that info. So what's the charlatan part? I see nothing misleading about how he presents the stuff.

That being said, I do admit some people are very prone to groupie, guru-seeking behavior, so they'll buy all the books, t-shirts and every merchandise there is from a guy. Not sure that makes him a charlatan for playing the market. Or is the very selling of Chopra-related merchandise the problem? The Deepak Chopra paraphernalia? :laugh:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16

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Re: Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #17492168 -

>> That being said, I do admit some people are very prone to groupie, guru-seeking behavior, so they'll buy all the books, t-shirts and every merchandise there is from a guy. Not sure that makes him a charlatan for playing the market

That's precisely what it makes him.  The public elevates him to guru status, and he does nothing to dissuade this mistaken view.  On the contrary, he cashes in on it, and in doing so he agrees with and encourages that which is not so: that Deepak Chopra has special knowledge and skill.  He does not.  He is a fraud of the worst kind.

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Re: Depression [Re: Ped]
    #17492181 -

But we must admit he's smarter than all his worshipers.  He's just acting on the nature of nature. Survival of the smartest/fittest.  He cashed in on human gullibility.  It's not like that hasn't been done before. :pope:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: Ped]
    #17492323 -

Ped said:
>> that which is not so: that Deepak Chopra has special knowledge and skill.  He does not.


Of course he does. The skill of taking info from old books in the Indian library (or wherever he takes the stuff from) and packaging it in a more palatable form, for people who can't be bothered to go check the library themselves. Like me. Or like people who have no idea Ayurveda and such even exist in the first place.

He does pack the info, and delivers it. That's a real skill. Calling Chopra a charlatan because he charges for what he does, is like saying the people who make movies after previous books or Shakespeare plays, charlatans, because they have no special skill. They do. It's taking old info and giving it brand new form for people to enjoy. Do you have the same knowledge? If so, how come you don't organize awesome lectures and cash in?

I literally would have no idea about Ayurveda at all, if I hadn't stumbled on his lectures online. Furthermore, I looked left and right for how to explain Doshas to people, and the mp3 with Chopra's lecture was the best, clearest explanation I've ever found. I looked at other sites and articles and they were not so clear. I would say that does take some real skill to make these products happen.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16

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Re: Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #17492829 -

>> The skill of taking info from old books in the Indian library (or wherever he takes the stuff from) and packaging it in a more palatable form

This is a skill, it's not a special skill.  It does not qualify a person as a guru.  He allows people to perceive him as a guru because he can make money and build an identity off of this misperception.  That's what being a charlatan is.

One does not have to dig very deep to uncover the true character of the man, which is very much different that the man he allows (and encourages) so many to perceive him as. 

He's not really all that intelligent, for the matter.  In fact, he's exactly as dim-witted as he can get away with.


>> But we must admit he's smarter than all his worshipers. 

Yes.  That is the role and primary qualification for being a charlatan.

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Re: Depression [Re: Ped]
    #17492858 -

Well I can't really feel too sorry about them if they're that stoopid.  I'd take their money if I had the ambition.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: Ped]
    #17495573 -

Hey Ped, I responded to your earlier question in another thread:

link


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Depression [Re: Ped]
    #17495722 -

just curious---so your a Dawkins freak?

Edited by zzripz (01/04/13 10:30 AM)

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Re: Depression [Re: zzripz]
    #17496035 -

Haha.  As amusing as it would be, I can't attest to that.

Everyone has their contribution to make to the public discourse.  Dawkins is a person who really, sincerely believes in the superiority of his views, and he is thus more palatable to me than Chopra, who clearly lives the opposite of the values he idealizes.  The difference here is the same as the difference between good and bad acting.  Bad acting does not amuse me.  Good acting does.  Chopra does not amuse me.  Dawkins does.

Unfortunately, I don't possess the acting talent to present a convincing Dawkins fanboy.  I like him nonetheless.

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Re: Depression [Re: Ped]
    #17496088 -

" Your lies are old but you tell em purty good" -U Turn


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: Icelander]
    #17496346 -


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Re: Depression [Re: Ped]
    #17496360 -

What's up Ped? You got stock in the company?  I have no idea what you're going on about. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: Ped]
    #17496386 -

Ped said:



I have to say I'm kind of disappointed with this story... I'd be in the grocery store and see the bread and always think it was kind of flippant when this picture of an old hippy wailing on a guitar said "just say no to bread on drugs" with "heavenly textures and righteous flavors" like he wasn't saying no to drugs, but just no to bread on drugs.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: Depression [Re: Ped]
    #17497600 -

Ped said:
Haha.  As amusing as it would be, I can't attest to that.

Everyone has their contribution to make to the public discourse.  Dawkins is a person who really, sincerely believes in the superiority of his views, and he is thus more palatable to me than Chopra, who clearly lives the opposite of the values he idealizes.  The difference here is the same as the difference between good and bad acting.  Bad acting does not amuse me.  Good acting does.  Chopra does not amuse me.  Dawkins does.

Unfortunately, I don't possess the acting talent to present a convincing Dawkins fanboy.  I like him nonetheless.


I was never able to respect Dawkins for some reason. He is mildly amusing indeed, but always had that clueless nerdy look about him, like he's convinced of his views but lacks the mouth to properly say it. And why hasn't he shown up to actually blast his mind with some potent psychedelics? I've seen him being challenged to do that and then maintain his materialistic, mechanistic views. His response (if well I recall) vaguely pointed that he tried that EM God-helmet with no results, and so on. Yeah like that even compares.

I'd like to see him tick off an Ayahuasca ceremony, a long Peyote sweat lodge, and a heroic dose of mushrooms, and then once those 3 are done, come back and say the same stuff he does now, that there's nothing out there :smile:

Hitchens, now there's another matter :laugh:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16

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Re: Depression [Re: Spacerific]
    #17501614 -

I have a question that comes the abyss of my depression.

In the next 100 years are people, humanity as a whole going to be suffering more or less with advancement of technology??? Give supporting evidence.  Not just doing the Obama thing where you say a bunch of stuff that sounds good but doesn't really mean anything like CHANGE!  Lets not get political that's just an example for some members who like to post ideas that sound good but don't make sense.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #17502022 -

Auto-Summary
The post argues that technological advancement alone does not inherently benefit humanity; it requires the advancement of human values. The author emphasizes the need to shift from valuing individual gain to recognizing the value of community, resources, and the biosphere. Technology can either help align our values with sustainable practices or accelerate our departure from the biosphere, as seen with nuclear energy's dual potential. The post criticizes current value systems that prioritize financial systems over planetary health, citing examples like NASA's Mars mission being rejected due to cost. It concludes that a sustainable value system is necessary for the species' survival, urging individuals to expose others to new ideas and promote human dignity. Ultimately, the author believes that while human minds are powerful, they are not all-powerful, and aligning with natural balance is crucial for the species' future.

We've seen that the advancement of technology does not carry intrinsic benefit to the human species if it is not matched by the advancement of human values.  By "values", I'm referring quite plainly to valuation:  discerning between what has value and what does not.

For example, our value system places emphasis on the value of material and personal success, which is to say to say individual gain.  The value placed on individual gain is placed ahead of the value of being part of a greater community; it's placed ahead of the real, tangible (as opposed to monetized) value of resources; it's valuation is so distorted that it has outpaced even the biosphere itself.

Such is the power of the human mind to manufacture a reality, and then live inside that reality, irrespective of what circumstances compel the human mind to reevaluate its scope and relationship with reality.

With that said, the human mind may be powerful, but is not more powerful than the sphere of natural laws which gave rise to its emergence.  Those laws will force our species to yield.  Unsustainable will become unsustained, and sustainable will be sustained.  This cannot be escaped.  The only question is: will the human species come to terms with the practical realities of its continued existence, or will it be disposed of by the immutable laws of that existence?

Here, technology can play a very valuable role.  Should our species come out of its bamboozlement and establish a coherent relationship with the practical realities it is faced with, technology will be enables us to quickly render that relationship synergistic. Equally, that same technology can be deployed in ways which will accelerate our forced departure from the biosphere.  Consider nuclear energy:  research into nuclear energy is the reason why Voyager II now relaying information about the nature of the heliopause from the very farthest edge of the solar system.  It is also the reason for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 

In 2005, NASA estimated that with current technology, a $50BN plan could be realized to put a team of explorers on Mars who would subsist long enough to carry out valuable scientific research, as well as generate the hydrogen fuel required for them to achieve escape velocity and return home.  Congress rejected the plan out of hand because of its financial cost.  The value of such a mission, in Congress' view, was not high enough to justify the $50BN allocation of economic worth.  To date, 12.6% of world GDP is allocated to bank bailouts alone.  The value of banks and bankers, according to our current value system, is many times higher than the value of exploring other planets.  Even though banks contribute nothing tangible to society--all they do is move arbitrary units of valuation around in computers--they were deemed "too big to fail" (read: too valuable to fail).  This is evidence of our value system disorder.

This value system disorder must be revised.  Indeed, it will be revised, because it has aligned our species against the very biosphere which sustains us.  Whether this revision means our extinction, or whether it means our sustainable continuance, the current imbalance will come to an end.  All imbalances must necessarily return to balance.  That is their unchangeable nature.

When the circumstances are unsustainable, change is inevitable.  If our species is to survive as the technologically integrated whole it has become this past century, it will require the abandonment of obsolete values and the adoption of a completely new, completely sustainable value system.  I believe human beings have this potential.  I believe it is within reach, and that our preference for survival will ultimately win out against our preference for unconstrained material wealth.  If I'm wrong, it will mean our extinction.  Since our extinction lies beyond the threshold of reckoning, it seems useless to me to reckon anything other than our potential.

Since I cannot control the minds of others around me, my responsibility begins and ends with my responsibility to expose the people within my reach of influence to new ideas, new ways of thinking, and to appeal to their human dignity.  If I extend myself beyond this responsibility, I suffer, because to try to change what you cannot change is to suffer.  If I fail to rise to this responsibility, I suffer, because to idle is to degenerate.  To not suffer in this regard, therefore, is to think within my scope, and to act within my radius of action; it is to regard the world with all the same dispassionate equanimity it extends to me.

The natural world is, after all, dispassionately equanimous.  It subsists entirely on balance, and it does not carry bias or preference.  The greater numbers of us who gain accord with this principle, greater the likelihood of our species' gaining accord with a sustainable subsistence.  The human mind is powerful, but it is not all-powerful.

Case in point:



Consider yourself a citizen of the human world, and you will be subject to its chaos and upheaval.  Consider yourself a citizen of the natural world, and you will come into alignment with principles beyond chaos and upheaval.

Edited by Ped (01/05/13 04:10 PM)

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Re: Depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #17505740 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
I have a question that comes the abyss of my depression.

In the next 100 years are people, humanity as a whole going to be suffering more or less with advancement of technology??? Give supporting evidence.  Not just doing the Obama thing where you say a bunch of stuff that sounds good but doesn't really mean anything like CHANGE!  Lets not get political that's just an example for some members who like to post ideas that sound good but don't make sense.


Judging by the population it seems technology is quite helpful, but in the end the numbers work out the same. Suffering is a consequence of life and karma needs no technology. In the end everyone will die, and everyone will suffer.

:smile:

It's an all you can eat buffet.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #17510424 -

As far as depression goes...Get over it. No offense, but you aren't helping yourself get anywhere by feeling bad or angry or sad or anything else that falls under the category of depression. Yes our society is screwed atm, but our generation is starting to wake up at an amazing rate. Though it has taken some time to get to where we are at today with our society and getting them to realize our earth is being ran by a group of elites. The forward progress from here will continue to rise, faster then before. Information is widely available on pretty much anything you would want to know. Just know that a secret group is trying to run your life and by falling into depression, anxiety, etc.. you are only feeding their energy and giving them what they want. Leave your silly emotions behind and pick yourself up and move on. Spread love to everyone around you and never bring a bad attitude with you anywhere. When things get tough, just know someone else always has it worse then you, and its up to all of us to make things better. Start small and we will grow like a fungus. Once we get a good foothold, there will be no stopping us and we will be able to fruit into the true beings we were destined to be.
LOVE ALL


--------------------
            --My Everything You Need To Know Tek--

Disregard the haters and "know it alls", it is everything you need to know TO GET STARTED.

If you want to become an expert, you'll need to do a lot more research.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Open Your Mind To A New Future
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                            :amanita2::syringe: :mushroom2::prance::mushroom2::cubie::sporedrop:

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Re: Depression [Re: Jman420]
    #17510730 -

As far as depression goes...Get over it.

What a stoopid, ignorant remark.  You'll do well here newb.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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