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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo
    #2219324 -

A friend of mine was down in Ecuador for a year studying with a shaman.. living in a little village.. the whole deal. He got back a few months ago. Over the course of the year he took ayahuasca about 50 times under the supervision of a shaman.

So we were talking about the whole ayahuasca healing thing. I understood that he'd seen some real healing take place. He says the whole ayahuasca thing is hard wired into these people's culture, and that's what gives ayahuasca it's healing power. The belief is so old, and so strong, that it's the ultimate use of the placebo efect. It's strong enough that the shaman could get an old woman off her deathbed by sucking on her stomach for a couple hours.

He said he also did an ayahuasca ceremony with a whitey shaman who had studied in the amazon and also with peyote cults and such for about 20 years. He said being in a room with a tv in a house just wasn't the same and the experience much weaker than out in the jungle. He also said that he could never be an ayahuasca shaman because he didn't believe strong enough.

It's pretty cool to know someone who has first hand experience doing what every mushroom tripper has wanted to do at some point. He had all kinds of cool goodies he brough back too. Tobacco cured in a really cool way that solves my problem of being a little too lazy to cure my homegrown tobacco properly in a curing shack that I don't feel like building. He had 2 big pop bottles filled with killer bee honey that he harvested himself, some special moonshine the jungle dwellers made and had present at every ceremony/gathering they performed, and some yerba mate type stimulant in a concentrated form that only his teacher knew how to make. Cool stuff.

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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2219365 -

I'm just wondering; how does one go about organizing a shaman vacation like that?


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.

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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2219371 -

I disagre mix.

While the placebo effect can be healing from the "healer within", ayahuasca is a powerful medicine. Allot of those retreats and shindigs are for tourist...


For safety's sake, and they are dosing a bunch of people, they usually make the ayahuasca a little weaker than what it should be.

NOT, that I am by anymeans an authority on ayahuasca, I bet Xochitl could answer this one better than I>

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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: medicinebag]
    #2219505 -

medicine.. my friend wasn't off to a retreat. He was living in the ass crack of nowhere in the jungle among subsistence-farming villagers who supplemented their diets with whatever they found in the jungle, and he took substantial doses day after day at times. I'm not saying that ayahuasca isn't a powerful medicine, I'm saying the opposite. What I'm discussing here is my friend's observations that as a punk from Canada he couldn't command the same kind of belief and therefore healing power as a shaman from that culture. This isn't about the physiological effects of ayahuasca on the person who takes it. I'm talking about if I chugged some ayahuasca and sucked on your belly.. well, let's just not go there.

manna_man.. my friend went down there originally on some kind of academic trip, met the person, and arranged to return a few months later for a year. He payed his way.. food, lodging, etc.

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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2219521 -

Right, Mix, from an external view point it looks like he is just sucking on someones belly. There are things that we cannot see with our eyes that penetrate our "spirit body" or cling to our "spirit/aura/luminous fibers". I think they call those spirits, Puntas, or bitches...

Check out this book, it is online if you search for it on a search engine. Its about one of you canadians goin south...

Grace and Madness
Curanderismo - Mestizo Ayahuasca

by Alan Shoemaker


Edited by medicinebag (01/05/04 12:47 AM)

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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: medicinebag]
    #2219547 -

I'm not saying that ayahuasca isn't effective, goofball. You think that I don't consider the placebo effect to be valid medicine, correct? Well, I do. Especially in this case. Like I said, my friend witnessed true healing happening from sucking on the belly. We speculated that the placebo effect is so strong in this case that you could say that the shaman and the patient are experiencing a completely altered reality. This is the power of their belief. It's such a strong placebo it goes beyond placebo.

Please, don't reccomend reading material. I have reading material, and I have a someone who experienced it directly. My sources and personal experience with ayahuasca support what I'm saying. You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I'm willing to clarify.

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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2219635 -

goofball? Ok shithead> I'll recomend reading material if I wish...

Fuckit. You apparently don't understand what is really happening. I am telling you it's not the placebo affect. you can't just suck on someones belly and expect that to work. Unles you can "see"> There are things "we" can't see with our eyes. Forget it.

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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: medicinebag]
    #2219669 -

hey man, keep insults at goofball level please

tell me what is happening! hahaha you are funny. I say that sucking on someone's belly doesn't work unless you're a patient of a shaman in the jungle who has supernatural powers and you see the world completely differently from us. I'm suggesting that maybe the placebo effect is more powerful than we currently suppose, and I consider it to be powerful as we know it. I speculate that when you have a mysterious, magical plant and supernatural encounters with the spirit world to back up your belief plus a long term tradition then you got yourself a powerful medicine. I'm not even disagreeing with you, there's plenty of room for whatever you're saying in my theory.

And there's plenty of room in my harem if you want me to make you become my bitch???

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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2219687 -

so you are likening this placebo effect to some sort of power of the subconscious?

I dig...I dig.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: Positronius]
    #2219691 -

Even further proof of thought creating reality..

Man I should really start keeping records...


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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: Shroomism]
    #2219695 -

so if you believe in the placebo effect as medicine, and then you take a sugar pill knowing it's a sugar pill but believing in the placebo effect completetly, then does the sugar pill work better on you than other people?

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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2219700 -

why do you even need the sugar pill then? If you believe in the placebo effect (subconscious makes reality) then one would not even need the sugar pill for it to work better.


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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: Shroomism]
    #2219706 -

the trick here is the "sub" part, you dont really have access to that part, thusly = "sub".


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: Shroomism]
    #2219714 -

see yeah.. cause that's really hard. What makes ayahuasca perfect is that you got these "entities" telling you how "everything" "works." And they must be telling the truth cause.. you know, it's really trippy. At least that's what I can tell from my own experience. Maybe you could set up some ideas and brainwash the youth with them about how imagining laser beams shooting tumors would cure cancer, and if you could get them to believe, they'd be set. But.. I doubt it. Ayahuasca seems good for that kind of thing. Neat stuff, don't know about how accessible it is as it has to do with the sub-conscious mind.

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Re: Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo [Re: Positronius]
    #2219718 -

Most don't. Fortunately, I've been practicing my whole life.
You have access, just not consciously. But focus or concentration can be trained, like anything, to access other aspects of itself.
It's just deeper, that's all.


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