Ped said:
On a really subtle level, life is most certainly suffering. It is an inherent attribute of interpretative pattern-organizing existence, or consciousness, to suffer. Without the sensitivities afforded to us by our living surfaces, be these material or energetic in nature, there would be no basis of imputation for selfhood, or discrete life-process. Since these surfaces depend on constant stimulation to maintain their organization and continuity, and since any constant necessarily sustains as the unity of two poles, the experience of life is always as painful as it is pleasurable, or any ratio thereof which is sustainable.
There is no state in life that is free from suffering. There is however a state that is neither lifeless nor deathless, it goes beyond birth and death, pleasure and pain, renewal and decay. This is the transcendent state, and it abides eternally. It's that from which all of us has emerged, and it's that to which all of us will return.
This transcendent state is very subtle and difficult to grasp, however it is much easier to see when you're wearing glasses. You see, when you're wearing glasses, it can be said that your lenses are clear. But they are not clear enough to know and perceive. Only the mind is clear enough to know and to perceive. This clearness is the interminable silence in which all things are manifest; it is neither formed nor formless, both lifeless and deathless, eternally at peace with eternal chaos.
Though eastern teachings tend to give me peace in my daily life, I could never stand the notion that there is no state of life free of suffering. For me, I take taoism as this (I'll talk like its fact, but its just my take on what Taoism is. )...
The state in which there is a self, gives meaning to the true state of nothingness. Tao is the force, the way, the route, the principle of dependence between two aspects of well, anything. But what that "way" does is become the origin of the birth of meaning for the other. One aspect is meaningless without the relationship between itself and the opposite. Note, it is the relationship between the two which produces the meaning, not merely the other being present, not just the opposoite aspect itself. That relationship is unique to each situation, unique to the two aspects it lies between, but underlying it, it consists of the fabric of everything---which imo, is meaning.
Yin and yang are simply dependent on each other to allow the tao to flourish between them both and be eachother's source of meaning. For there is no state in which something is meaningless. That is the mystery of Tao. Taoism isn't about opposites. It is about the relationship between them, and that relationship sustains both and gives both the grandest of meaning.
Life, especially life in which there is a self and a self that is aware (aka, a human), suffering could most definitely be prominent. But only if you let the self-awareness take control. Too much acknowledgement will fog the glasses for sure. But possessing the ability to acknowledge in-itself is a prime component for Tao to be. Tao is very precise. We tend to hear all that jazz of the nameless tao being within everything and being the way to everything....but the way in which it is "the way" has a formula so to speak. In short, if something IS, I'll call "A", then there MUST exist something which IS THAT (again the mystery of Tao), I'll call "B." Now, if there is something which IS THAT, then there MUST exist That WHICH IT IS NOT--namely, the opposite, which I'll call "C."
Tao is made up of all three parts. I mean just look at its symbol. The opposites schools speak of isn't the Yin and the Yang. It isn't the large black and the large white. No, those are the originations of the birth of meaning for one another.
If there is anything...let me use Yin, "A", for this case, Then there must exist that which is Yin, "B",---This is the seed of yin, or the little black circle within the large white part (Yang). Now, if there exists a "B" which is that "A" then there must exist a "C" which is what the "B" is not.
So If there is yin (a) there must be a seed of yin (b). If there is a seed of yin (b) there must be the opposite, that which the seed of yin is not--Yang (c). And vice versa for yang.
So really the opposites are the small black circle and the large white (seed of yin and yang) and the small white circle and the large black) (seed of yang and yin).
Thus the extension of Yin, is that which produces yang. And the extension of yang, is that which produces yin. Once both are there, Tao takes "form" so to speak (though since it manifests in an infinite amount of manifestations, it is formless).
Cultivating Tao, is really just allowing the extension of anything that is, to yield the origin of the original something. And not only are the two aspects the origin of the Tao between them (and thus the origin of meaning for one another), but they are also the negation.
And even within The symbol itself, there is the three parts. Yin, yang, and everything as a whole. All three of these parts play eachothers roles just at different times. When yin reaches the top it becomes yang, and so forth.
This idea is no different then with paradoxes. Paradoxes are not two conflicting truths, they are one truth and one falsehood, and one reality of the situation. The mystery and profoundness behind paradoxes that most people don't seem to get, is that each part of the paradox plays the role of the other, simply at a different point in time. The truth becomes the falsehood and the falsehood the truth. The reality then changes.
So to say life is suffereing, to me at least, is absurd. The ego is a blessing...it is a vessel in which meaning can arise for the state in which there is no self, because that state can not be meaningful on its own. It needs life to do that for it. It gives that state meaning by being the origination of the Tao between the two aspects. Tao can then flourish within each one. The ego, used to acknowledge things which place you too far into one aspect of the manifestations of tao, is certainly trouble, and most of the world does this to our egos. But the idea of life and the ego itself, is beautiful, and allows another manifestation of Tao to occur by producing the second aspect within this particular Tao circle.
The state of nothingness often talked abut is just one asepct right now. The other, is our lives. And it doesn't seem clear at all because we don't cultivate the way like recluses do in the mountains. But that doesn't mean that the lifeless state is the more prominent state. No, it is the relationship between both. It is the Tao, which gives both meaning. And neither state could be there in the first place to even take grasp of becoming meaningful without the presence of the other.
Calling Tao "the way" may have been fine for the ancient chinese, because they knew what it meant. We can't honestly believe that we have done a fine enough job translating the taoist txts. And I think it is due to not even understanding the word, "tao" itself. I like to call it the principle of dependence, because it really was a principle just as much as our principle of causality. The chinese learned this through observation, and in observing they were able to formulate how it comes about...which is precise. But what exactly comes about-Tao- is formless for it is manifested within, between, above and below everything.
The state of which you spoke in the last paragraph, I would call tao itself. And we will exist as that state at some point, because each of the three aspects play each other's role. But all three are required. And thus all 3 of importance. You can not suffer if you both are full of meaning and bestow meaning unto that which you are not.
Why must things posses meaning? Because to me, that is the source of all things. That is what Tao provides.
But hey, thats just my view in a nutshell
Edited by TheMule73 (01/02/13 10:39 PM)
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