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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: Phred]
    #17210096 -

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/12/22 07:05 PM)

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #17210229 -

EntheogenicPeace said:
You're wrong on both counts. Total expenditures exceed more than either of those two programs individually. Moreover, since people pay in and get back, only a minority of such spending is wealth transfer, and though unsustainable in the long run, they are not what's bankrupting the u.s. Again, cancel both of these and you increase the deficit due to excessive military spending, over $900 billion per year, and another about $200 billion when interest from unfunded military sending is factored in.

P.S. According to the u.s. founders, empire and meddling in the affairs of foreign countries is not what the republic should be doing.


has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe because the U.S. constitution (the infallible words of the uber gods collectively known as the founding fathers) mentioned military spending they mentioned it only for actual purpose of defense rather than to give congress, carte blanche, the ability to spend as much as possible on the military even if for no other purpose than to spend money as Phred seems to suggest?

but no . . . maybe the constitution mentioning military spending is not simply a free pass to spend as much as we can on the military. maybe, we can think about this and decide that cutting spending in the military would be a good thing because our spending is beyond what is necessary for our defense?

then again, i'm just an obama loving libertarian that voted for gary johnson which means i just want a handout from the gov't (is that correct Phred and Zappa?)

maybe we need to stop trying to justify our military spending and realize that all sorts of spending needs to be cut to solve the deficit problem.

or we could just blame poor people and blame anyone that voted against romney. i think i'll chose those last two solutions. the problem is poor people and anyone that voted against romney, am i right? all hail the infallible GOP platform!!!!

but Entheo, you probably already know this judging by your posts. keep up the good fight mang.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: 46 and 2]
    #17210303 -

yes of course, the electoral votes for the states Obama won equal 100 more points then Romney, in reality the vote ratio was 48/50 Romney 50/50 Obama


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: imachavel]
    #17211009 -

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16053544#16053544

Quote:
o all Romney/santorum supporters; -when- obama wins re-election vs. your guy quit your bitching about him because its your fault for voting for losers.

dont bitch as the economy crumbles either and the constitution is shredded.

Im going to be calling you out.

just a heads up...



consider this your calling out.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: EntheogenicPeace] * 1
    #17211088 -

Quote:
You're wrong on both counts. Total expenditures exceed more than either of those two programs individually.


No, you are wrong on both counts. Your claim that military spending is the largest component of federal government spending is false. Wealth transfers are, and have been for a very long time. Why do you keep lying about this? You've been proven wrong every other time you've made this false claim. Have you no shame?


Phred


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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: Phred]
    #17211660 -

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/12/22 07:06 PM)

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: Phred]
    #17211683 -

Isn't it supposed to be free market competition that transfers wealth in a capitalist society?


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Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom or technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams. - Tsunetomo Yamamoto

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: 46 and 2]
    #17212674 -

46 posts in this thread, 2 since I last checked it, and the last poster is named 46 and 2. Fuck me


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: Enlil]
    #17212683 -

Enlil said:
No one expects things to change overnight.  A third party candidate will not likely be elected President in your lifetime, but there is every possibility that a third party could get enough power in the senate and/or house to actually constitute a swing caucus.  If that happens, politicians of the two major parties will start addressing the concerns of the third party to some extent.



Bingo.  And the thing to remember is that you don't actually need politicians that are formal members of these parties- just enough people with support from them to take notice when an important issue comes up.

I vote libertarian and support such at the federal level, but suspect some social safety programs, especially for children and to stick a boot up the behind of parents, are for the best.  I want the state and local authorities to administer these.  I would love to be able to vote for mainstream candidates.  Oftentimes I simply don't vote on local elections because I can't be confident in any of the choices (often this has to do with the piss poor campaigns these guys run- they'll spend ten thousand dollars on yard signs but won't take a day to make a webpage that presents concrete positions on issues).

I can easily be won by a candidate who incorporates my desires into their platform.  When that happens, I'll vote for them.  I refuse to endorse people I can't support- however much phred whines about that.

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: 46 and 2] * 1
    #17212733 -

46 and 2 said:
Isn't it supposed to be free market competition that transfers wealth in a capitalist society?


Free market capitalism left the table a long time ago.

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: qman]
    #17213559 -

viktor said:
46 posts in this thread, 2 since I last checked it, and the last poster is named 46 and 2. Fuck me


Have you ever had deja, deja, deja vu?

johnm214 said:
Enlil said:
No one expects things to change overnight.  A third party candidate will not likely be elected President in your lifetime, but there is every possibility that a third party could get enough power in the senate and/or house to actually constitute a swing caucus.  If that happens, politicians of the two major parties will start addressing the concerns of the third party to some extent.



Bingo.  And the thing to remember is that you don't actually need politicians that are formal members of these parties- just enough people with support from them to take notice when an important issue comes up.

I vote libertarian and support such at the federal level, but suspect some social safety programs, especially for children and to stick a boot up the behind of parents, are for the best.  I want the state and local authorities to administer these.  I would love to be able to vote for mainstream candidates.  Oftentimes I simply don't vote on local elections because I can't be confident in any of the choices (often this has to do with the piss poor campaigns these guys run- they'll spend ten thousand dollars on yard signs but won't take a day to make a webpage that presents concrete positions on issues).

I can easily be won by a candidate who incorporates my desires into their platform.  When that happens, I'll vote for them.  I refuse to endorse people I can't support- however much phred whines about that.


I agree with you, I think state and local authorities have a better grasp at what their citizens want and need, whereas the Washington bureaucracy becomes too out of touch and distant from the very people they are supposed to represent.

qman said:
46 and 2 said:
Isn't it supposed to be free market competition that transfers wealth in a capitalist society?


Free market capitalism left the table a long time ago.


That, I agree with, and that is what needs to be fixed in order to bring balance to an economy. It's sad if you can get arrested for growing a simple vegetable garden in your front yard because it "fluctuates food prices."


--------------------
Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom or technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams. - Tsunetomo Yamamoto

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: johnm214]
    #17218524 -

Quote:
Oftentimes I simply don't vote on local elections because I can't be confident in any of the choices (often this has to do with the piss poor campaigns these guys run- they'll spend ten thousand dollars on yard signs but won't take a day to make a webpage that presents concrete positions on issues).


Exactly.  Often times, you're lucky just to get a half-assed facebook page when you're dealing with local politicians.  And many can get away with that because they know the majority of people just look for the "D" or the "R" in front of their names.  I just don't vote at all if they can't be bothered to tell me what they stand for.

Quote:
I can easily be won by a candidate who incorporates my desires into their platform.  When that happens, I'll vote for them.  I refuse to endorse people I can't support- however much phred whines about that.


:thumbup:


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: Phred]
    #17223772 -

Phred said:
Quote:
You're wrong on both counts. Total expenditures exceed more than either of those two programs individually.


No, you are wrong on both counts. Your claim that military spending is the largest component of federal government spending is false. Wealth transfers are, and have been for a very long time. Why do you keep lying about this? You've been proven wrong every other time you've made this false claim. Have you no shame?


Phred


Well, I'm not sure who is right.  But I do know that the US spends more on defense than any other nation by a very big margin.


Also, when I said superficial differences between Obama and Romney what I meant was that both parties basically do the same things.  They may fight and bicker come election time, and fight and bicker in congress.  But when it comes down to it they both are incompetent.  They both spend way more than they should.  They both now preach  preemptive war.  They both support the war on drugs. 

Phred, it seems like arguing about this stuff is pointless to me.  That's why I rarely post in the political forum.  It's basically the same 6 people in here arguing the same 5 topics.  A lot of times these threads just turn into all out fights. 

It's not very welcoming to the people who may wish to discuss these things.  It doesn't seem to me like there is much true discussion, just a bunch of people arguing that they are right. 

For me both parties in our government are basically the same very just a few ideological differences.  I remember back in 2008 when Obama got elected how his supporters really believed in him and thought he was here to "change" things.  In reality he just continued Bush's agenda for the most part.  That's what I'm talking about, very little differences.  So many of the things Obama promised on during his first run for president were basically anti-Bush.  He was gonna end the wars.  End torture and shut down our little terrorist prison in Cuba. On and on it went and then when he got elected he did none of those things and even kept members of Bush's cabinet.


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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: amilibertine]
    #17223958 -

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/12/22 07:06 PM)

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: Shins]
    #17224389 -

Shins said:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16053544#16053544

Quote:
o all Romney/santorum supporters; -when- obama wins re-election vs. your guy quit your bitching about him because its your fault for voting for losers.

dont bitch as the economy crumbles either and the constitution is shredded.

Im going to be calling you out.

just a heads up...



consider this your calling out.


your calling me out? For.... not voting for Obama? :kingtard:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #17225046 -

EntheogenicPeace said:
Keep in mind that to call military spending "defense" is a subjective claim. Regardless, it's wealth redistribution more so than any other form of federal government spending.


Last year alone the government disbursed over $1T dollars in means tested welfare.  That does not include Soc Sec or Medicare (it does include Medicaid)  The defense budget is less than that.  Stop lying.  They provide a service that people are willing to pay for.  Welfare recipients obviously do not.  If they did they would be getting paid for it.


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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #17225292 -

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/12/22 07:07 PM)

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #17225348 -

EntheogenicPeace said:
You can call military spending a children's petting zoo if you'd like, bit it's still military spending. Let 's see your figures for $1 trillion in wealth redistribution to "losers" such that the latter surpasses the former. I get about $350 billion via Medicaid, food stamps, & AFDC.


http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/18/report-welfare-governments-single-largest-budget-item-in-fy-2011-at-approx-1-03-trillion/

Suck it.  I posted this before.  Did you think I couldn't find it again?


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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #17225441 -

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/12/22 07:08 PM)

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Re: Libertarian Factor to Romney's defeat... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #17225514 -

EntheogenicPeace said:
It said $750 billion for the federal government. I'm not going to analyze the GOP report that they cite for accuracy. If you want to make the case,  make a list such as...

Medicaid.    $210 billion
Food stamps.    $60 billion

And so on.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/110366590/Spending-for-Federal-Benefits-and-Services-for-People-With-Low-Income-FY08-FY11

The link was at the article.  This has been out for some time and I haven't heard of any Dems disputing it.  It does not include this




The federal government is not the only government.  The states also chipped in, often as required by the feds to the tune of over $250B.  Ever heard the phrase "unfunded mandates"?  That was also clearly spelled out in the article.


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