notanumber said:

I feel like I'm reading a news report confirming that water is wet.

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Jvells said:

Yup i was gunna say the same thing, very reminiscent of a dmt trip. The woman, the trails, the shimmering, etc.

I read it's made at sleep, death, and possibly in our pineal gland. Found in everything, we always have it in our piss. Personally im not gunna call bullshit, it's definitaly possible and makes perfect sense. Definitaly aleays room for doubt though

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that DMT in everything/made in sleep/pineal gland/why we dream thing has NEVER been proven. It was speculation from a doctor who did DMT trials in the 70's. SPECULATION.

As for the meningitis related coma meningitis is serious business and many mostly children die from it. Heres my question.......time in dreams is relative. In the same way you can have a dream that feels like eons and it only have been 8 hours. Whats to say this guy wasnt actually braindead for that entire week and once he was being brought out of it he just had a wild dream and mistakes the time he spent in the dream coming out of the coma as his entire time experiencing nirvana for a week of brain dead coma?

People romanticize dreams and going from the brink of death and having a fantastical dream would surely jar even the most steadfast and logical thinking person.

He experienced Oz. It was just a dream Dorothy. Just a dream....

Dark_Star said:

It was Heaven cause the doctor came from a Christian background. The experience is the experience, what it's perceived as/named afterwards is dependent on previously held belief systems. People will almost always try to connect a novel & unique experience to something that's more familiar in an effort to better understand & integrate it.

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igCorcaigh said:

Some people say that the NDE is produced by the brain being flooded with endogenous DMT at the time of death. Maybe so. But why would the brain do this?

And if there is an afterlife/NDE, mediated by DMT production, what happens when someone dies in a massive explosion where the brain does not exist at the moment of death? DMT cannot exist then to mediate anything.

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Rewindicus said:

Jvells said:

Yup i was gunna say the same thing, very reminiscent of a dmt trip. The woman, the trails, the shimmering, etc.

I read it's made at sleep, death, and possibly in our pineal gland. Found in everything, we always have it in our piss. Personally im not gunna call bullshit, it's definitaly possible and makes perfect sense. Definitaly aleays room for doubt though

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Interesting. Average dream is only a couple seconds though. Which makes it more interesting. Maybe that's every near death experience.

A note id like to make though. Lets say hypothetically a dmt trip is a near death experience to the T. Anytime I breakthrough I will usually forget who I am, what I am, what I was doing, and where I came from. I forget everything about this life and experience what's going on as if it was that, that always was. I never mix the two places or try to fill in the holes until after I come down and back to reality. If I never came back I would have never known the difference or remembered this life to try and fit it into a logical place.


that DMT in everything/made in sleep/pineal gland/why we dream thing has NEVER been proven. It was speculation from a doctor who did DMT trials in the 70's. SPECULATION.

As for the meningitis related coma meningitis is serious business and many mostly children die from it. Heres my question.......time in dreams is relative. In the same way you can have a dream that feels like eons and it only have been 8 hours. Whats to say this guy wasnt actually braindead for that entire week and once he was being brought out of it he just had a wild dream and mistakes the time he spent in the dream coming out of the coma as his entire time experiencing nirvana for a week of brain dead coma?

People romanticize dreams and going from the brink of death and having a fantastical dream would surely jar even the most steadfast and logical thinking person.

He experienced Oz. It was just a dream Dorothy. Just a dream....

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PsyPerception said:

notanumber said:

I feel like I'm reading a news report confirming that water is wet.

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What do you mean by that?

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There is more to subjective experiences than perhaps we give credit to.

Western society treats rationalism as a type of religion. The type of knowledge one can achieve through the investigation of the reproduceable, experimentally testable, 'objective' is priviledged highly and we often ignore, or decline to acknowledge other forms of knowledge. Every one of us experiences the subjective, and has and utilizes knowledge stemming from it, but this type of knowledge is often subordinated to aspects of our consensus reality reachable by our current scientific method. (I don't know if our current iteration of the scientific method can reach all that is 'objective', Godel would think not!) 

The guy referenced in the OP, he might call what he experienced heaven, I don't really think 'heaven' exists, I'm not religious. But what I do agree with is that one can gain just as much knowledge from the subjective. When there is a little reversal like this, I find it interesting. I think it excites people a little bit. I think the excitement comes because it is an acknowledgement of the value of subjective experience, and people project their own versions of reality onto what he experienced, and feel validated along with him (the article WAS published after all).

It's a bit cute, there is this cute little caveat, a little nod to science:  "oh, this particular subjective experience is scientifically RELEVANT, no brain activity, yet experiences, we need to look at it!", (of course I share the sentiment! with or without the nod to science)-- the subjective isn't inherently meaningful on it's own in our society, after all, it can't be (and those who elevate subjectivity, even in a systematic way, lose their accredition as high priests of science. [even literature, sociology, anthropology which elevate individuals' views of reality need to do so within a very structured framework, and the views they describe do not determine the framework, or the mode of analysis itself]...). (Hell, my whole post right now is done within a framework of western philosophy and argumentation! Though maybe with all of you here I could just say 'something like water is wet to me, heaven is real to him, and that's awesome')

But of course the supremely subjective has meaning, and relevance. Privileging science comes with a tradeoff, we are mostly blind to who we are and what is inside of us. We're scared to talk about what we feel, what is real to US (rather than what is objectively real), and we're a pretty emotionally/imaginatively impoverished/lonely society as a result of it. I think most people here would agree that we could learn a hell of a lot from those supposedly primitive societies that eat roots and berries and mushrooms and cacti and jungle potions and explore worlds with them. (Which society is it that calls these things delusions? Hallucinations? [and don't even get me started on the drug war... wrong rant]) 


I guess this post went longer than I wanted it to. Sorry for ranting.

notanumber said:

PsyPerception said:

notanumber said:

I feel like I'm reading a news report confirming that water is wet.

---

What do you mean by that?

---

There is more to subjective experiences than perhaps we give credit to.

Western society treats rationalism as a type of religion. The type of knowledge one can achieve through the investigation of the reproduceable, experimentally testable, 'objective' is priviledged highly and we often ignore, or decline to acknowledge other forms of knowledge. Every one of us experiences the subjective, and has and utilizes knowledge stemming from it, but this type of knowledge is often subordinated to aspects of our consensus reality reachable by our current scientific method. (I don't know if our current iteration of the scientific method can reach all that is 'objective', Godel would think not!) 

The guy referenced in the OP, he might call what he experienced heaven, I don't really think 'heaven' exists, I'm not religious. But what I do agree with is that one can gain just as much knowledge from the subjective. When there is a little reversal like this, I find it interesting. I think it excites people a little bit. I think the excitement comes because it is an acknowledgement of the value of subjective experience, and people project their own versions of reality onto what he experienced, and feel validated along with him (the article WAS published after all).

It's a bit cute, there is this cute little caveat, a little nod to science:  "oh, this particular subjective experience is scientifically RELEVANT, no brain activity, yet experiences, we need to look at it!", (of course I share the sentiment! with or without the nod to science)-- the subjective isn't inherently meaningful on it's own in our society, after all, it can't be (and those who elevate subjectivity, even in a systematic way, lose their accredition as high priests of science. [even literature, sociology, anthropology which elevate individuals' views of reality need to do so within a very structured framework, and the views they describe do not determine the framework, or the mode of analysis itself]...). (Hell, my whole post right now is done within a framework of western philosophy and argumentation! Though maybe with all of you here I could just say 'something like water is wet to me, heaven is real to him, and that's awesome')

But of course the supremely subjective has meaning, and relevance. Privileging science comes with a tradeoff, we are mostly blind to who we are and what is inside of us. We're scared to talk about what we feel, what is real to US (rather than what is objectively real), and we're a pretty emotionally/imaginatively impoverished/lonely society as a result of it. I think most people here would agree that we could learn a hell of a lot from those supposedly primitive societies that eat roots and berries and mushrooms and cacti and jungle potions and explore worlds with them. (Which society is it that calls these things delusions? Hallucinations? [and don't even get me started on the drug war... wrong rant]) 


I guess this post went longer than I wanted it to. Sorry for ranting.

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