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OfflinePavement
Stephen Malkmus

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 123
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Siezures During Trip
    #1635926 - 06/15/03 11:03 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

A friend of mine has been having siezures while coming down. He doesn't eat that much, 2-3 grams MAX. It has happened every single time he has tripped. Once, he thought it was because he was peeing, once because he was smoking pot while coming down, once because of drinking, but on a really mild homegrown trip today, it happened again. Basically, it looks and feels like a siezure, shaking, vomitting, feeling of choking, blacking out, and then waking up. Anyone have any ideas as to what this could be a sign of? I've always thought that being able to handle shrooms reflects a certain mental and phyiscal wellness of being, him being able to not tolerate the effects is worrying. Otherwise, he says he loves tripping. Thanks.


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"Over the turnstile and out in the classroom there ways of living and this is the way I'm living right or wrong" - Range Life - Pavement


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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 841
Loc: In my pants
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: Pavement]
    #1636045 - 06/15/03 11:47 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Anyone have any ideas as to what this could be a sign of?

It's definitely a sign of having a fucking siezure!!! This is not something to fuck around with. Your friend needs to go see a neurologist immediately! My wife is an epileptic, so I know of what I speak. Siezure activity is a VERY serious indication that something is wrong with your brain chemistry - something not related solely to the mushrooms. Have your friend tell the neurologist that he's having siezures when he does mushrooms - there's no worry that the doc will tell the police or anything like that. But unless he has the information, he cannot make a proper diagnosis.

This is not a joke, nor is it something to be taken lightly. Your friend really really really should not trip again (if ever) at least until he sees a neurologist and gets some idea if there's something else going on.


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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OfflineDailyPot
Trip'n Time

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 2,207
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1636145 - 06/16/03 12:24 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

I second that completely.


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OfflinePavement
Stephen Malkmus

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 123
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: DailyPot]
    #1636215 - 06/16/03 12:59 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

They last like a minute or so and are pretty scary. My friend has no history of siezures and well, is worried about seeing a neurologist and saying, oh yeh, when I take a physcedlic drug im not suppose to take, I loose my shit, whats wrong with me? He feels like, and I add that it makes sense to feel this way, that the doctor is just going to say, stop taking the drug and you will stop having siezures. He has tripped once before and not had these effects and he figures, if it doesn't happen all the time (4/6 or something), maybe it has something to do with the trip. Any more thoughts on the situation?


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"Over the turnstile and out in the classroom there ways of living and this is the way I'm living right or wrong" - Range Life - Pavement


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Offlinezandorf
OTD residentvirginwizard-abstinenceain'teasy

Registered: 05/29/02
Posts: 3,072
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: Pavement]
    #1636227 - 06/16/03 01:05 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

if he gets a doctor who pulls
the rodney dangerfield on him
like that, he should see another doctor
until he finds one that will
actually look into the problem.



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We live in a world where lemonade is made with artificial flavours and furniture polish is made with all natural lemon.


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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 841
Loc: In my pants
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: zandorf]
    #1636238 - 06/16/03 01:12 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

As someone in the medical field - although not yet a doctor, I can say with reasonable certainty that any neurologist your friend sees - hell, pick one at random - will treat this situation with due respect and will not flippantly chalk it up to the shrooms.

These people do not get thier degrees from the Wal-Mart. And he also has a confidentiality agreement with his patients (I suppose I should say "his or her"...), so really, saying that this only happens when he does shrooms is a non-issue.


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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OfflinePavement
Stephen Malkmus

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 123
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1636252 - 06/16/03 01:26 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

He isnt worried about legal ramifications, he just doesnt have the money to get 1000s of tests done on him, and when he explains it to a doctor, he doesnt think the doctor will be able to suggest anything besides not taking shrooms.

Can anyone point me to the symptoms/side-effects of shrooms? (I've read everything here). Example, on E, having a siezure relates to severe dehydration...On shrooms, having a siezure would most likely relate to what?


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"Over the turnstile and out in the classroom there ways of living and this is the way I'm living right or wrong" - Range Life - Pavement


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: Pavement]
    #1636590 - 06/16/03 04:40 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

It's not the mushrooms causing the seizures. It's psychosomatic:

Here's a bit of info:

Psychosomatic illnesses are characterized by symptoms for which no physical cause can be found. People with these disorders are not faking symptoms. They truly believe that they are caused by serious illness.

In conversion disorder, which used to be called hysteria, emotional conflict and extreme stress are unconsciously converted into physical symptoms. Symptoms usually appear as the loss of a physical function. They may include paralysis, seizures, false pregnancy, blindness or the inability to walk or speak. Episodes are usually of sudden onset, brief and may recur. Characteristically, people with conversion disorder do not seem to be appropriately alarmed by their severe symptoms. Conversion disorders usually occur in adolescence or early adulthood. Symptoms may help the person avoid dealing with an internal conflict, avoid a disliked activity or get support from others that he or she might not otherwise receive. They usually disappear when the situation that caused it improves.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offliner00tg04t
the main event

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 178
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: Xlea321]
    #1637042 - 06/16/03 11:16 AM (14 years, 9 days ago)

About 2 weeks ago I went on a 7 gram trip. It was amazing, I was tripping the hardest I've ever tripped before. I was basically having one of the best times of my life. I had hash, bud, and I went exploring in a forest for a bit, what could be better?
I was having fun till all of a sudden I started feeling ill. I looked at the clock, it was 2:26. I leaned over, and what felt like 3 hours later, I told my friends I felt like total shit. I looked at the clock and it was only 2:28 and I blacked out.
I don't remember any of this, but I was on my buddies couch, and everyone was watching me seeing if I was going to puke, and then I just bust into convulsions, my whole body twitching and shit, my legs fully flexed up in the air, my arms flailing everywhere wildly. My friend put a garbage can near my face so if I puked it wouln't get all over me and the couch. When I came too, I still felt like total shit for a bit, I couldn't think of anything other then feeling like shit for no reason. I was like soaking wet in sweat, and I felt really really hot. I was overheated, but I have no clue why I just started busting into convulsions?

Could it be that I was really pissed at someone at the time? My life is very stressful right now, and I'm just wondering if being pissed at someone pushed me over the edge or something... Should I go see a doctor about this or what? It's only happened this once, and I've tripped like 10 times. I have no clue what happened....

I munched that night at 11:40.


--------------------
Bro'z b4 Hoe'z


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: r00tg04t]
    #1637052 - 06/16/03 11:30 AM (14 years, 9 days ago)

If you're worried then maybe it is worth going to see a doctor just to put your mind at rest. If the seizures only occur when you're very stressed perhaps it's more psychosomatic than physical.

It's very hard to see how psilocybin could be responsible for causing seizures simply because it's so completly non-toxic. It comes around 400 places lower in the toxicity list than aspirin. It's like someone saying "I took aspirin and went into a seizure". I'd be looking at a whole list of other things first before blaming it on the aspirin!


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineSev
Astropath
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 1,426
Loc: NY
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: Xlea321]
    #1637330 - 06/16/03 02:20 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

Uh, Alex, you're a bit quick to spout off "It's psychosomatic!" when it's pretty evident that you don't have any idea what the hell you're talking about, or what the root causes of seizures are. 

The psilocybin may or may not be directly responsible for the seizures.  More likely, it's indirectly responsible: the psylocibin induces the trip-state in the brain, which is a very altered state of consciousness.  The electrical activity in the brain changes, and this could set off a seizure.  Stress from a trip could also set off a seizure.  Thinking that you're going to have a seizure can set off a seizure, and that's not psychosomatic, either.  It's a real seizure.  Blinking lights can set off a seizure, and psylocibin is infinitely more toxic than a blinking light.  :wink:

In a person who has a slight tendancy towards seizures, the altered state of consciousness that is caused by tripping could easily trigger an event.


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"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: Pavement]
    #1637516 - 06/16/03 03:38 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

in my opinion, if he gets checked out by a doctor and there's nothing weird going on, I think your friend may want to pay a bit more attention to his breathing while tripping, and try to relax during all parts of the trip.

I'm no doctor or scientist though, so don't take my w0rd for it :P


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: Sev]
    #1637617 - 06/16/03 04:24 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

Thinking that you're going to have a seizure can set off a seizure, and that's not psychosomatic, either

Yes it is. It's got piss-all to do with the physical effects of the psilocybin.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 841
Loc: In my pants
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: Xlea321]
    #1637666 - 06/16/03 04:47 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

Ok, there is a pile of misinformation being bandied about right now, and it's not helping anyone.

There is no such thing as a siezure that's psychosomatic. Can't happen. Okay - maybe if you are a yogi and can control your bodily processes enough that you can actually control your parasympathetic processes like the guys who slow their heart rates down to 1 bpm, then yes.. maybe you could. But discounging those 3 guys from this conversation...

Getting a cold can be psychosomatic. Having joint pain or a fever or even swollen glands can be psychosomatic. Blacking out, disassociative behaviour, nausea, puking - related to tripping; these can all be psychosomatic. Having a siezure, whether a grand mal or petit mal siezure, is not, and cannot be psychosomatic. If you believe this to be the case, then that's your business. But you're wrong, and telling other people what your opinion is in regards to this extremely serious condition is irresponsible and wreckless.

And thinking that you're going to have a siezure cannot set off a siezure, either. It may set off a blackout or some other type of adverse reaction (and I'm talking specifically about when you're tripping), but it cannot trigger a siezure.

Again, I live with an epileptic and understand all too well the causes, precursors, effects, and after-effects of a siezure. This is not something to be taken lightly, and please.... if you're not positive that what's coming out of your mouth is correct on this one, then leave it alone. Doing otherwise is a disservice to the community.


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1637794 - 06/16/03 05:35 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

I think we're confusing terms here. What a kid on shrooms says is a "seizure" and what a seizure is in medical terms are likely to be pretty fucking different. Self-diagnosis is fraught with problems. Beyond saying "it hurts here" and pointing to yourself you really can't trust any other self-diagnosis to be worth a damn. Some kid saying "he had a seizure dude" is not something you base an informed medical opinion on.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: Xlea321]
    #1637836 - 06/16/03 05:49 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

Yes, he should see a doctor, and should probably not use any more recreational drugs, except maybe weed.


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Offlinewyldtouch69
You heard ofhell well i wassent from it

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 2,817
Last seen: 9 years, 10 days
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: Pavement]
    #1637887 - 06/16/03 06:09 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

man I get seziures too... I've had CAT scans and MRIs and no one knows why i get em... they're usually stress-induced. I've had a seizure coming down from a BAD trip. Other than that, tripping is ok with me.

he should definatly consult a doctor though.

When i seized last time coming down someone sent me a link to a page about sezing during shrooms trips. It was very informational, I'll look around and see if I can't find the link.


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OfflinePDU
travel kid vs.amerika
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/04/02
Posts: 10,675
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Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: wyldtouch69]
    #1638282 - 06/16/03 09:46 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

I have tourettes and have miniture seizures all throughout everyday of my life. They are usually just small flinches, but sometimes they are VERY intense and can even knock me over, just uncontrollable movement of my body (arms flailing, or legs kicking or stomping). However, all symptoms go away while tripping. I just thought id share that, as it may or may not be related.


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GO OUTSIDE.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: PDU]
    #1639199 - 06/17/03 10:13 AM (14 years, 8 days ago)

To be honest I've heard this "it gives you seizures" story about every single illegal drug there is from marijuana to GHB to cocaine to heroin etc.

So there's either something special about illegal drugs that causes seizures or it's an urban myth and a few kids are seeing panic attacks and diagnosing "seizures". How many 15 year olds on shrooms can accurately diagnose "seizures"


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineGanjaManDan
Blazin' Phatties
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 692
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Siezures During Trip [Re: Xlea321]
    #1639862 - 06/17/03 04:24 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Ok, I was with r00tg04t when he had his so called "seizure".

He said he was going to pass out and all of the sudden he started twitching and shaking and his legs were in the air.

Now I've tripped on higher dosages, and I know many people who trip also.. This does not seem like a common thing to do while on high dosages. So, in order to solve this problem there is a simple diagnosis... If you don't like having "seizures" do not trip, or SEE A DOCTOR.. It is fucking pointless to ramble on about what really happened.. No one knows, and no one can tell over a message board..


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Psychedelic Experience

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