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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #15787844 -

double post, so what.


Solidarity? Dude, wtf? Why does Europe have to have solidarity? What makes the US, Canada, Australia, and whatever other example you can throw out there exempt? Why not use a digital global currency?

Not to sound like NWO style here, but what if man? Stop electing corrupt fucks like Obama and this could be a peaceful world.

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #15787853 -

DebuteMachine said:
Solidarity? Dude, wtf? Why does Europe have to have solidarity? What makes the US, Canada, Australia, and whatever other example you can throw out there exempt?



The nations you list are political and monetary entities. Europe is a monetary entity, but not a political one. Solidarity is required to bring a sufficient degree of political unity in order to make the monetary entity work.

Quote:
Why not use a digital global currency?



Because there is no global political entity that has sufficient power to make a global currency work.

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: koraks] * 2
    #15787886 -

It's interesting to me that many are here debating the financial condition of Greece without possibly considering that it may be the idea of money itself that is problematic and thus being socially re-defined, and as such we are witnessing turmoil in so many different economies as a reflection of this.:twocents:

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: Jessica Swift]
    #15787896 -

I don't think abolishing money will solve the issues we see. It might solve some of them, but it will bring up larger ones.

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: koraks]
    #15787909 -

Koraks, How would you feel if the Chinese who hold trillions of US bonds say one day , we want you to hikes taxes 50% from current levels, end all entitlements programs, and enslave the US people so they can make the debt payments.

If you do not do this, we dump all the bonds today, the answer would be simple, tell them to go to hell, we will be fine on our own thank you.

Greece will be fine on their own, with their own currency. Current bond yields on Greek euro debt is already 100-400%, so what difference does it make, start with a new currency and debt market.

This is about Greece having its own destiny, paying double for oil in the first 6 months will wake up the Greek people, and get them back to work.

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: qman]
    #15787917 -

qman said:
Koraks, How would you feel if the Chinese who hold trillions of US bonds say one day , we want you to hikes taxes 50% from current levels, end all entitlements programs, and enslave the US people so they can make the debt payments.




He's Dutch, my guess is he;ll roll a fatty and watch you guys get owned while planning his next investment move.

*lends Koraks a rolling paper*


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: Jessica Swift] * 2
    #15787936 -

Jessica Swift said:
It's interesting to me that many are here debating the financial condition of Greece without possibly considering that it may be the idea of money itself that is problematic and thus being socially re-defined, and as such we are witnessing turmoil in so many different economies as a reflection of this.:twocents:



This has been my train of thought. Money is being purposely devalued (as some will say) to create free labor. I'm just saying who cares if it's a monetary system, or a political power. We are all subject to nature, and the laws of the universe, not laws of man. When will we tune into this?

We all populate planet Earth. If we were in space with colonies, I could see exactly what's going on down here up there. Feel me?

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: Jessica Swift]
    #15788034 -

Jessica Swift said:
It's interesting to me that many are here debating the financial condition of Greece without possibly considering that it may be the idea of money itself that is problematic and thus being socially re-defined, and as such we are witnessing turmoil in so many different economies as a reflection of this.:twocents:




i agree, jessica.

The way i look at it tho is like this; Yea its all a scheme but as long as everyone has agreed on its value, money still serves a purpose. Since its still "worth something" i say we save, buy precious metals and let our kids worry about what happens when people realize paper money isnt really worth anything at all.

Or to put it another way; i dont think people are going to abandon the current system until they are presented with a better more viable option. This is how we make our living and as long as we all accept the value of :money: thangs will be "ok" in the short term.


I prefer using gold and silver coins over paper or "digital" money.

The world economy is a complex system that im not even going to pretend to understand but this is how i feel about what you said. I think paper money(promissary notes) is the problem tho and not money itself.

If you could explain why money, in general, is problematic i would love to learn.

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: Apostle]
    #15788098 -

Good response Hologram.

I think the dollar needs to be more valuable at the base level though (like the middle class) because the "elite" want to ruin it for us, it would seem. I just hate the idea of classes, I know they are bound to happen though. Currently it just seems out of control.

Why not just cut a certain percentage of debt off every country? Here's me not understand global economy very well, I would like someone to chime in who does, though. If one day the Euro gets me value than the dollar, or even Yen, who cares? It feels like the dollar has to be the most valuable or the world would go to shit.

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: qman]
    #15788145 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
qman said:
Koraks, How would you feel if the Chinese who hold trillions of US bonds say one day , we want you to hikes taxes 50% from current levels, end all entitlements programs, and enslave the US people so they can make the debt payments.




He's Dutch, my guess is he;ll roll a fatty and watch you guys get owned while planning his next investment move.

*lends Koraks a rolling paper*



You read my mind :wink:

Apart from that:
qman said:
Koraks, How would you feel if the Chinese who hold trillions of US bonds say one day , we want you to hikes taxes 50% from current levels, end all entitlements programs, and enslave the US people so they can make the debt payments.



Nobody is enslaving the Greek. The rest of Europe is just pointing out to them that if they want to be enjoying the financial security of being part of the EMU in the future and a healthy economy in general, they better start restructuring their economy and become more productive.

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: Apostle]
    #15788217 -

Hologram said:
Jessica Swift said:
It's interesting to me that many are here debating the financial condition of Greece without possibly considering that it may be the idea of money itself that is problematic and thus being socially re-defined, and as such we are witnessing turmoil in so many different economies as a reflection of this.:twocents:




i agree, jessica.

The way i look at it tho is like this; Yea its all a scheme but as long as everyone has agreed on its value, money still serves a purpose. Since its still "worth something" i say we save, buy precious metals and let our kids worry about what happens when people realize paper money isnt really worth anything at all.

Or to put it another way; i dont think people are going to abandon the current system until they are presented with a better more viable option. This is how we make our living and as long as we all accept the value of :money: thangs will be "ok" in the short term.


I prefer using gold and silver coins over paper or "digital" money.

The world economy is a complex system that im not even going to pretend to understand but this is how i feel about what you said. I think paper money(promissary notes) is the problem tho and not money itself.

If you could explain why money, in general, is problematic i would love to learn.






Your exactly right hologram, you ask the main question, when will paper money lose the confidence of the world. It's all about when the financial markets decide it's over.

People or citizens will watch from the sidelines as the biggest money holders in the world puke up the worthless paper. Wh don't know when or why, but it will happen.

The only thing people can do is own gold and silver, stay out of paper and wait it out. The US dollar will no longer be the reserve currency of the world, and that's a big change for the whole monetary system, and maybe the biggest adjustment for mankind.

Like many I am surprised they have held off things this long, but the end is getting near, simple math tells us that fact, when the confidence breaks, it happens very quickly.

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: qman]
    #15788262 -

Those who prefer gold and silver to currency might ask themselves what the value of precious metals is based on. That's right: a convention. Just like your 'worthless' paper currency.

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: koraks]
    #15788292 -

koraks said:
Nobody is enslaving the Greek. The rest of Europe is just pointing out to them that if they want to be enjoying the financial security of being part of the EMU in the future and a healthy economy in general, they better start restructuring their economy and become more productive.



the finns pointed this out first and they got so much shit from the media (especially germany) :P

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: koraks]
    #15788335 -

koraks said:
Those who prefer gold and silver to currency might ask themselves what the value of precious metals is based on. That's right: a convention. Just like your 'worthless' paper currency.




The prices of alcohol, tobacco and firearms are based on conventions too.

But, you can't print gold, silver and ATF out of thin air like they do with fiat currency, and this fiat currency thats backed by nothing is then used to obtain actual goods and services.

Gold is protected against counterfeiting on the atomic level. You can make fake gold coins yes, but you can't pour billions of REAL gold coins into circulation that didnt exist before.

There is no way Greece would have gotten billions in gold, or doughnuts. Theres no way billions in gold would have evaporated the way all that mickey mouse money has.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: Asante]
    #15788446 -

That individual is awesome.  And he supports occupy.  More power to him.


--------------------

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: koraks]
    #15788450 -

koraks said:
Those who prefer gold and silver to currency might ask themselves what the value of precious metals is based on. That's right: a convention. Just like your 'worthless' paper currency.





The value of the metal is relative to the amount of paper currency, or some people like to use outstanding amount of debt.

In the 1980, the gold price actually surpassed the amount of paper (US dollars vs US gold holdings), meaning at 850oz, there was more gold value relative to paper. Gold was overvalued to paper for a short period of time.

Today, to get a fair value relative to paper, the numbers go crazy higher from here (10,000-20,000oz), relative to foreign debt outstanding, the gold price exceeds $12,000 per oz. 

The point being, at times of currency distress, gold finds it's true value. Silver inventories hardly exist, so relative to paper, the numbers are beyond mention.

If you live in Europe, you know that the ECB balance sheet is now over 3.2 trillion, and will still be growing down the road. This is no joke at this point, inflation will really start brewing in the next 6-18 months. Euro currency is in big trouble, failure to see this is just blind at this point.

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: qman]
    #15788518 -

qman said:
Koraks, How would you feel if the Chinese who hold trillions of US bonds say one day , we want you to hikes taxes 50% from current levels, end all entitlements programs, and enslave the US people so they can make the debt payments.




wouldnt happen, the US congress doesnt kowtow to the chinese government

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #15788537 -

Having read your posts for years, I respect your perspective Prisoner1.  Maybe this will be moved to another forum but if the U.S. dollar is abandoned worldly, for buying oil and such, I don't think the U.S. will have a strong standing globally anymore.


--------------------

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: koraks]
    #15788740 -

koraks said:
Those who prefer gold and silver to currency might ask themselves what the value of precious metals is based on. That's right: a convention. Just like your 'worthless' paper currency.



Gold is inherently useful, though.

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Re: Anonymous is stirring the pot in Greece [Re: morrowasted]
    #15788752 -

Gold is, but like another poster wrote, what good does gold do you besides if you have food, drink, and such.  Viable goods.  Could of made of a fortune though in the meantime if my instincts are right.


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