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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14244066 -

Tchan909 said:
Blaming religion for violence is part of the selfsame cycle of violence that results in new religions.

And this excuses religion, how? :lol:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14244075 -

I'm trying to absolve religion specifically of religious violence, and to lay the blame for violence on the humans who create and perpetuate both religions and violence.

Blaming religion for violence is kind of like blaming gays for AIDS.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14244106 -

Tchan909 said:
I'm trying to absolve religion specifically of religious violence...

Well good luck with that.


Tchan909 said:
...and to lay the blame for violence on the humans who create and perpetuate both religions and violence.

Everything humans do is human nature; the blame can be put both on religion and human nature.


Tchan909 said:
Blaming religion for violence is kind of like blaming gays for AIDS.

You mean like blaming certain gays for spreading AIDS? If they truly spread AIDS, then what is the problem with that? :confused:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14244142 -

I guess my problem is with generalizations - would you advise your friends never to adopt the homosexual lifestyle on the grounds that you don't want them to get AIDS? That would be ridiculous, because they would (hopefully) follow safe sex practices, and most gay people do not have AIDS. The gays-AIDS association only works specifically, but generally it is dangerous and foments hostility.

Similarly, most religious people adhere to their faith in order to feel a sense of shared meaning and for personal absolution/inner peace. The religious-violence association only works specifically, such as for our friend :osama:, but generally it is dangerous and foments hostility.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14244177 -

Tchan909 said:
I guess my problem is with generalizations...

So long as you understand that they're just generalizations, what is the problem?


Tchan909 said:
...would you advise your friends never to adopt the homosexual lifestyle on the grounds that you don't want them to get AIDS? That would be ridiculous, because they would (hopefully) follow safe sex practices...

You can still get AIDS if you follow safe-sex practices. Most people who drive buzzed/drunk do not get in fatal accidents, but I still would not advise anybody I cared about to drive while buzzed/drunk.


Tchan909 said:
The gays-AIDS association only works specifically, but generally it is dangerous and foments hostility.

How is it dangerous, and how does it foment hostility?


Tchan909 said:
Similarly, most religious people adhere to their faith in order to feel a sense of shared meaning and for personal absolution/inner peace. The religious-violence association only works specifically, such as for our friend :osama:, but generally it is dangerous and foments hostility.

Violence isn't the only problem with religion, not by a long-shot.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14244226 -

That doesn't answer the question - do you tell your gay friends to stop being gay because analingus carries a higher risk than other forms of sex for HIV transmission? Do you speak out against all homosexuality for this reason?

Even if you understand that you are speaking in generalizations, people who hear you often do not. I'm sure you have a humble enough self-image not to feel guilty about speaking in undistinguished generalizations, but consider this: there are plenty of people on the Internet dumb enough to take a well-written post that reinforces their prejudices as Gospel truth.

What are your problems with religion other than violence?


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14244270 -

Tchan909 said:
That doesn't answer the question - do you tell your gay friends to stop being gay because analingus carries a higher risk than other forms of sex for HIV transmission? Do you speak out against all homosexuality for this reason?

This isn't a very good analogy--the negatives in religion far outweigh the potential negatives of being a sexually-active homosexual.


Tchan909 said:
Even if you understand that you are speaking in generalizations, people who hear you often do not.

Right, which means that we should blame this on atheism. :rolleyes:


Tchan909 said:
I'm sure you have a humble enough self-image not to feel guilty about speaking in undistinguished generalizations, but consider this: there are plenty of people on the Internet dumb enough to take a well-written post that reinforces their prejudices as Gospel truth.

Right, which means that we should blame this on atheism. :rolleyes:


Tchan909 said:
What are your problems with religion other than violence?

Far too many to list; for starters, I don't like how it corrupts the youth, I don't like the superstitious mindset of its followers, and I just think it's fucking retarded. Also, it totally just fucks people up. :nut:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (04/05/11 09:19 PM)

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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Poid] * 2
    #14244315 -

Religions, strictly, are nothing but sets of beliefs and cultural practices that have been handed down for millenia.

You and I are handing down beliefs and cultural practices as well, even if we do not put the title "religion" on those things, and our own beliefs and cultural practices are equally at-risk to corruption as religion.

Again, I'm not blaming atheism for anything. I'm just calling it ugly. Christians can boast that they have an ancient book of history and poetry thousands of pages long, plus a long and diverse tradition in the arts and science, but what have you got to show for your beliefs? Nothing but the :thebird: and an unspoken air of superiority.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14244357 -

Tchan909 said:
Religions, strictly, are nothing but sets of beliefs and cultural practices that have been handed down for millenia.

That isn't a complete definition of what religions are.

Religion
Quote:
Religion is a cultural system that creates powerful and long-lasting meaning, by establishing symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values. Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe. They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature.


Tchan909 said:
Again, I'm not blaming atheism for anything. I'm just calling it ugly.

You haven't shown it to be ugly, and you seem to keep mistaking it for anti-theism.


Tchan909 said:
Christians can boast that they have an ancient book of history and poetry thousands of pages long, plus a long and diverse tradition in the arts and science, but what have you got to show for your beliefs? Nothing but the :thebird: and an unspoken air of superiority.

So they can boast about their religion, and I'm the one with an air of superiority? :what:

Who cares what I have to show for my beliefs? What relevance does that have?


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14244405 -

I'm honestly kind of running on fumes at the moment and beginning to split hairs, so I think I'm gonna bow out of this one for tonight. :lol:

I think the archetypal example of "atheism as an ugly thing" is represented by God is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens. You should read it if you have the time and opportunity. I love Hitchens as a commentator, but I feel like this book is the Bible for snarky and obnoxious atheism with no understanding (or even a purposeful disregard) for the logic of the theology it opposes.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14244424 -

Tchan909 said:
I'm honestly kind of running on fumes at the moment and beginning to split hairs, so I think I'm gonna bow out of this one for tonight. :lol:

:bowdown:


Tchan909 said:
I think the archetypal example of "atheism as an ugly thing" is represented by God is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens. You should read it if you have the time and opportunity. I love Hitchens as a commentator, but I feel like this book is the Bible for snarky and obnoxious atheism with no understanding (or even a purposeful disregard) for the logic of the theology it opposes.

Logic in theology? Give me a break. :smirk:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Poid] * 2
    #14244430 -

Very well, I shall concede to you the last laugh. :tongue:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14244436 -

+1


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14244537 -

Atheism can be a beautiful thing; but it isn't necessarily so- after all, atheism is not a dogmatic religious belief that requires you to act according to a set of rules (aka a religion). There are as many attitudes within it as there are atheists.


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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: CMACD]
    #14663884 -

Quote:
Hitler exterminated millions of Jews, and although he professed the Christian faith publicly, he was privately areligious.


I think you missed the point. Those followers were religious, and in truth he was counting on being able to motivate people by using religion.

And his ally, Hirohito, literally was god according to the Japanese. This gave people a good excuse to sacrifice themselves if they were crazy enough... and they endeavored to kill their enemies in the process.

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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14664046 -

Tchan909 said:
I'm trying to absolve religion specifically of religious violence, and to lay the blame for violence on the humans who create and perpetuate both religions and violence.

Blaming religion for violence is kind of like blaming gays for AIDS.


Sure it's humans doing it, but religion makes for a very deceptive tool to get people (not all religious people, but some) to do whatever you want, regardless of whether it even fits in with the code of the religion.  I just personally can't see the net benefit of it, but then again, some people may find it difficult or even impossible to behave morally without religion.  I try not judge people for needing this to keep them straight, however, as I'm sure given different conditions, I could be the same way.

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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: Poid]
    #14666344 -

Poid said:
Tchan909 said:
That doesn't answer the question - do you tell your gay friends to stop being gay because analingus carries a higher risk than other forms of sex for HIV transmission? Do you speak out against all homosexuality for this reason?

This isn't a very good analogy--the negatives in religion far outweigh the potential negatives of being a sexually-active homosexual.



What would the condom of religion be?:strokebeard:


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The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: blewmeanie]
    #14666984 -

claiming that there's nothing once you die is just as bad as claiming there is something such as heaven/hell. The simple truth is that we dont know... athiests are just as dumb as all other religious followers imo :rofl2:


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^v^

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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: foliocb]
    #14667520 -



--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: atheism is an ugly thing [Re: blewmeanie]
    #14667614 -

^ :lol: nice..


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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