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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: cc2]
    #14007035 -

cc2 said:
Seuss said:
> Companies like Motorola only make gimmicky products, are never innovative, and never fully deliver.

I wouldn't go that far.  Motorola is a very large company that has a huge portfolio of products, many of which are far superior to anything else on the market.  I would agree with you, in general, on many of their consumer electronic products.


agreed. plus apple has silly prices, silly policies and phantom support. you have to pay for everything, cannot open your devices, and enforces everything to be paid, it's matter of time before they'll bottle up cupertino air and will make you buy that and desert dust.


Apple has the most competitive prices in the industry with their iOS devices. Nobody can come close to matching the iPads price without cutting corners. There hasn't even been a tablet released worth mentioning that can compare in price or quality, let alone both. Their Mac line is a premium product that has no rivals in hardware and design. All computer manufacturers only dream of making the profit Apple does. Consequently Apple is number 2 publically trade company, next to exxon mobile. They have more market capital than Microsoft and generate long lines for every new product released. Apple shareholders would also agree that the Mac price is justified and make Apples products stand apartin quality.

It's ones opinion on whether their prices are silly but the fact is the prices are what make way for success. You get what you pay for. An IBM thinkpad is relatively the same price along with the premium lone of other companies. Android phones are still atleast $200 with subsidy and sometimes additional rebates are required. Which leads me to my last point. You said apple has phantom service? Compared to (Dell)? Apple is consistently rated top in support by consumers by significant margins.

Not preaching at you. But everything you said is any opinion, not a fact. And the fact you don't expect to pay for stuff says alot. You must not be a developer because we don't work for free, and we don't make he best stuff planning on breaking even. It's the ecosystem Apple setup that allows people like me to make a living doing what I love, which making the best stuff I possibly can while living a modest lifestyle. I make open source software too, but something has to at bills and keep the engine churning.

This whole "Apple products are overpriced" argument isn't a valid argument to discredit a company. Rather the price affects your ability to afford their products. Big difference.

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: daytripper05]
    #14007614 -

daytripper05 said:
[...] but the fact is the prices are what make way for success.

You said apple has phantom service? Compared to (Dell)? Apple is consistently rated top in support by consumers by significant margins.

Not preaching at you. But everything you said is any opinion, not a fact. And the fact you don't expect to pay for stuff says alot. You must not be a developer because we don't work for free, and we don't make he best stuff planning on breaking even. It's the ecosystem Apple setup that allows people like me to make a living doing what I love, which making the best stuff I possibly can while living a modest lifestyle. I make open source software too, but something has to at bills and keep the engine churning.


replying statement by statement. nothing against you personally.

prices are what make way for success. you said that.
so why not highlight that stealing and many other illegal activies lead to success and so called economical climb too? I see no point in justifying the HUGE profit margin that apple makes on its products.

I'm not defending microsoft either. just think to what happened in 1996 though.

about phantom service: as a customer, you pay every friggin' thing.
let's say, your i-stuff does not work, you ask for replacement, you freeze a grand for the switching service and then when you get your replacement it does not work, so you call them back again and they tell you that you may replace it again, or send it to repair.

that's not a story, it happened to many ppl I know unfortunately. now tell me which kind of joke service is it.

apart from that, in the second part of your message you're cleary stating what I think is the proof you can't judge objectively and cold headed, as the great cape buffalo jobs may have brainwashed you as his large pocketed fellas


--------------------
:mushroom2: Agar contams poll ! Cast your vote! :mspoil:

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: cc2]
    #14010501 -

cc2 said:
prices are what make way for success. you said that.
so why not highlight that stealing and many other illegal activies lead to success and so called economical climb too? I see no point in justifying the HUGE profit margin that apple makes on its products.



Not sure what this paragraph means or what the point is, so I won't even speculate.

cc2 said:
about phantom service: as a customer, you pay every friggin' thing.
let's say, your i-stuff does not work, you ask for replacement, you freeze a grand for the switching service and then when you get your replacement it does not work, so you call them back again and they tell you that you may replace it again, or send it to repair.



One could make an anecdotal statement about their experience being bad for anything. By consumer reports, Apple's service is the best year after year, along with their products. Most other companies put a limit on repairs and replacements. (An anecdotal story: My cousin's cheap netbook broke and took 4+ weeks to fix, after paying shipping of course. If it breaks again, he is screwed. This would not happen with Apple, you just go to the store and deal with it immediately.) The person you know is not the norm, and it can happen with anyone, at any company. Steve Jobs (nor does any other CEO) doesn't babysit every jackass store manager in a bad mood, which again, can happen any company. Aside from this, Apple's tech support (in America at least) is filled native english speaking people. They don't outsource their support like most other electronics companies. HP and the likes are the definition of phantom support.

And regardless of one's opinion, Steve Jobs is one of the few CEO's who frequently replies to email directly from customers. He does so without remorse or political speak, straight to the point, no different than you and I right now, for better or worse. I admire such from any politician or CEO. While other companies make false promises, like failing to deliver flash upon arrival when it was originally promoted a prominent feature, Apple does what Apple wants and people can choose to buy or not. They are pretty clear about.

Apple products aren't for everyone, in large because they are grossly misunderstood.

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: daytripper05]
    #14010954 -

daytripper05 said:
skatealex2 said:
Chespirito said:
I like aspects of Apple Products.  They take the design, form and function of their products very seriously and it shows.  While I don't like the iPhone due to its restrictions, to me there is no question that is fundamentally a better user experience than an Android phone. 

For the new iPad 2, it is rumored to have a 2048 x 1536 pixel display.  How about Motorola's new Xoom running Android 3.0?  1280�800 pixels.  There is just a fundamental difference on quality that Apple has always strove for.  I respect it, and I wish companies like Motorola and Google would take it as seriously.  Though 3.0 looks pretty sweet from what I've seen.






http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/02/17/siegler.apple.subscription/&sa=X&ei=I9NeTf7NLsP58AaSisXfCw&ved=0CDUQ-AsoADAB&usg=AFQjCNH0alu09bAXl9rvzuPNJ6LxqxPUwA


im  thinking of switching from ipad to xoom.  ill take an open system over apple's if it's good.


This is not really a fair comparison. You are comparing the entry level product of a first year device that isn't even released, to high end device of product that has been out for a year. That's not saying much for Motorola. All those specs are arbitrary, because the end user is not affected by them. If my piece of software runs perfectly fine with a fraction of the specs (as in no noticeable lag or computation time) then more specs would not actually do anything for the user, except for giving some person a peace of mind. With tablets, it's the software that really drives them, not the specs. I have an iPad and while with some apps it's a little laggy (compared to the spec superior iPhone), but most of the time things happen instantly, just like on my iPhone and my 2.66Ghz dual core i7, despite having just a fraction of the computational power and only 256MB of memory!

The Xoom doesn't have a leg to stand on outside the geek and Apple hater community. If a person wants an iPad, they can get one for $499 or spend over $800 for one with more storage than the Xoom for like $30 more, and you get ton of Apps. The entry level buy in is the price that matter and will grab the market share, not a side by side comparison of arbitrary specs that will be matched in a couple weeks (before the Xoom ships)..

The only spec that matters with Xoom in comparison to the iPad, is the screen resolution. I am not sure if the iPad2 will have a better screen, or if that revision will occur in the 2.5 (or 3.0) iteration of the iPad (which both have been rumored.)


well a few things about Xoom looks good to me about it.  one , it will have flash (in a few weeks) full web experience. second, the home screen looks a lot more interesting/possibly fun to use then the ipad and third, 1 gb of ram - which if rumors are right will be more than ipad 2 has - people are expecting it to double the 1st version ipad in ram, also the screen for the Xoom looks like it will be good.

it is a new device tho obviously so its possible Motorola may stop supporting the project after a while and for a while at least im sure the app store wont compare to iPad's but it's possible over time it will have a lot of similar apps.  i heard certain ones like angry birds are free from Android.

for right now tho im sure certain apps on my ipad like 'Multitrack Daw'- recording app probably rips anything the Xoom has but i guess we'll see over time.


im a little bothered with the no flash policy, iPad2 not having much of a spec upgrade and Apple's new subscribtion policy which could possibly alienate some companies/apps from apple.  i don't even use netflix or hulu on this but i can't see it as a good thing to lost out on those and it could also lose amazon support if they require 30% fees from companies.

time will tell i guess. they're saying ipad2 will be announced next week and the Xoom is out thursday.

I

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: skatealex2]
    #14012115 -

> im a little bothered with the no flash policy

Having seen flash on mobile devices, not having it is no big loss.  Maybe with the tablets bigger screen things are different, but on smaller screens, not having flash is better than the mangled crap that you get when flash is supported.  Flash is also a CPU hog (which equates to a battery hog on mobile devices).  I'm not claiming that alternatives are any better, but if you support (and use) flash, expect your battery life to suffer drastically.  Finally, flash is an outdated, proprietary (closed) technology that needs to retire.  I am amazed at the hypocrisy from people that hate Apple for not being open, yet support flash, which is closed.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: Seuss]
    #14012790 -

Seuss said:
> im a little bothered with the no flash policy

Having seen flash on mobile devices, not having it is no big loss.  Maybe with the tablets bigger screen things are different, but on smaller screens, not having flash is better than the mangled crap that you get when flash is supported.  Flash is also a CPU hog (which equates to a battery hog on mobile devices).  I'm not claiming that alternatives are any better, but if you support (and use) flash, expect your battery life to suffer drastically.  Finally, flash is an outdated, proprietary (closed) technology that needs to retire.  I am amazed at the hypocrisy from people that hate Apple for not being open, yet support flash, which is closed.


I'm not supporting flash. at all. I'm against apple and its policies, prices and brainwashing.

Linux :bow2:


--------------------
:mushroom2: Agar contams poll ! Cast your vote! :mspoil:

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: cc2]
    #14013018 -

BlackBerry Playbook, powered by QNX, forthcoming.
Includes flash.
No cut corners and price competitive.

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: debianlinux]
    #14013869 -

As for tablets, Im probably gonna wait for the HP Palm tablet

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: Chespirito]
    #14018233 -

> As for tablets, Im probably gonna wait for the HP Palm tablet

I'd recommend waiting until summer and seeing what comes out from the various competitors.  Buy what meets your needs.  People tend to get wrapped up in a name, be it for or against the name.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: Seuss]
    #14021792 -

i tried the Xoom tablet at best buy today. 

only advantage is the browsers better han safari, flash soon, a good maps program and the camera, otherwise didn't seem too special.  the screen doesnt go that bright on it ether.

Edited by skatealex2 (02/24/11 08:52 PM)

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: skatealex2]
    #14058547 -

Seuss said:
> im a little bothered with the no flash policy

Having seen flash on mobile devices, not having it is no big loss.  Maybe with the tablets bigger screen things are different, but on smaller screens, not having flash is better than the mangled crap that you get when flash is supported.  Flash is also a CPU hog (which equates to a battery hog on mobile devices).  I'm not claiming that alternatives are any better, but if you support (and use) flash, expect your battery life to suffer drastically.  Finally, flash is an outdated, proprietary (closed) technology that needs to retire.  I am amazed at the hypocrisy from people that hate Apple for not being open, yet support flash, which is closed.



I couldn't have said it any better.

iPad was announced yesterday, thus rendering any tablet concept pretty much dead on arrival. The iPad2 has a lot of new features. The magnetic screen covers are pretty cool and after using my other iPad for almost a year, I can really see this becoming a vital piece in usability.

skatealex2 said:
i tried the Xoom tablet at best buy today. 

only advantage is the browsers better han safari, flash soon, a good maps program and the camera, otherwise didn't seem too special.  the screen doesnt go that bright on it ether.


The iPad2 is debuting (later to be updated on first version iPads) a new Safari javascript engine, Nitro to give it a 2x performance in javascript execution. It should really bring the Mobile Safari up to speed and actually enable developers to make quality apps on the web, not just natively. This honestly is my biggest complaint about iOS in general, but alas it's about to change.

HP's Touchpad looks to be most promising competitor that will hit the market this year, but don't expect it to be anything like an iPad. They will likely get the software right, but it's almost impossible they will compete with Apple in pricing, battery life, and physical size of the devices.


Here is a spec comparison of iPad2, Xoom, and Playbook. http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-motorola-xoom-vs-hp-touchpad-vs-blackberry-playbook/

iPad has competitive specs in every way except battery life and thickness, and weight which are far better than competitors. I'm pretty excited about getting the new one.

Edited by daytripper05 (03/03/11 08:40 AM)

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: debianlinux]
    #14058555 -

debianlinux said:
BlackBerry Playbook, powered by QNX, forthcoming.
Includes flash.
No cut corners and price competitive.


Right... I have nothing against the device (except for they have announced three different versions while not one has even been shipped), mainly because I was inquiring to download the SDK and be an early player to release apps on the platform. It's an absolute nightmare and will likely take a LONG time before any developer builds a quality app for it. Apps are made with Flash and Adobe AIR, and there is an impossible arrangement of hurdles to just before getting there. In this case, they don't need to cut corners, instead cut whole the damn policy in half and give the developers a want to actually build something for the platform. Blackberry is turning into the new Nokia.

http://blog.jamiemurai.com/2011/02/you-win-rim/

This article gives a good detailed explanation as to why RIM is failing right now.

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