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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Apple Products, do you dig or not?
    #13763935 -

There seems to be a big divide with people and Apple.  Some people think they make the best products and others seem to think on the opposite end.



Personally i think their products are quality but i dislike the way they tend to limit usability on their products. that said, i rarely have seen a Mac crashing, but i can't say the same for windows.  Obviously they both have their pros and cons.


What you think?

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: skatealex2]
    #13763949 -

ipods a while back before cheap memory where nice but now the price has dropped so much on cowons that are so much better and memory makes chitty mp3 players cheap there is no need anymore. the followers of them are to nuts and now its not like the hardware is any different really. same garbage coming out of china as the rest of the computer makers.


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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: skatealex2]
    #13764035 -

Im not a fan.  I have no prejudice against them, but everytime I consider a product Apple losses out due to very high cost and the limited usability you mention.

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: skatealex2]
    #13764084 -

I used to do tech support for the iPhone.  Over the time I worked there, the gist I got when it came to Apple and its customers is that the customers expect Apple to hold their hand and tell them what they can and can't do with their product.  It's a very paternalistic company, and some people happen to like that.  I like to have a little more freedom than that.  If I were to get any Apple product, I'd probably get an iPod classic.  Those things have an insane amount of memory, and I don't expect all that much freedom and functionality from an mp3 player.  Other than that, I'd rather avoid Apple.  The iPad is kind of sweet, and the Galaxy S tab still trails it in a lot of specs, but I don't think it'll be long before a much better Android tab comes out.


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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: Silversoul]
    #13764779 -

Many years ago I bought my daughter a first gen Ipod.  The battery died eventually.  I took it to the Appleretardfreakstore to get a new battery.  They wouldn't do it.  They wouldn't even sell me one.  They said I could buy a new Ipod.  What about all the songs on this one?  Lost.

I went online and bought for about $30 a battery and a little plastic tool to open the case.  The procedure was strangely like a delicate surgery but I managed to execute the replacement.  I am not the least bit interested in ever having anything to do with Apple.


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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: skatealex2]
    #13764833 -

skatealex2 said:
i rarely have seen a Mac crashing


if they had stability issues when they control 100% of the entire product, top to bottom, then there is something wrong. i expect it to be more stable simply because they dont have to worry about every hardware component under the sun..



i personally dont think their products are that bad. if you dont feel the need to customize too much and can overlook the fact that they limit functionality and over-charge then they make some really nice stuff.

i feel they are too restrictive. if you want to manage photos you use iPhoto. if you want to manage music you use iTunes.. there arent any choices available. and on the iPhone.. having additional choices are actively banned. its Apple's way or nothing at all.

i have two major complaints with apple though.. one is the way they market their products as revolutionary when they have been around for decades. its easy to shrug this off but once you consider the fact that Apple has no problems suing for preexisting software concepts (intelectual property) it gets a little complicated.

they sue Creative for using a hierarchical menu structure but have no problem slapping a shiney GUI on a package manager and calling it an innovation.

also, the way they take code from open source projects without contributing back to upstream is really shitty too. i realize thats what the BSD license allows.. i disagree with that license though. they are using the community as free labor. the right thing to do would be to help those who helped you.




all this being said, ill still recommend Apple products to friends and family who i know would call me 5000xs a day looking for free tech support. i will never fix a family members computer again.


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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: skatealex2]
    #13765482 -

Quote:
There seems to be a big divide with people and Apple.  Some people think they make the best products and others seem to think on the opposite end.
 


i like some apple products, but certainly not all of them. having owned both an iphone and an android phone, i wouldn't even consider another product running iOS until one can freely install non-market apps and manage one's files manually (independently of itunes) with the device's storage mounting as a drive.  i consider these basic liberties, and wouldn't be willing to go backwards in this regard.  antenna issues aside (lol), they're otherwise perfectly fine in the world of skinny electronics manufactured in china... well actually, i expect external storage (microsd card) and the option for an alternative battery out of any future purchases as well.

that said, i find many os x applications a pleasure to use (logic, fcp, aperture)..  and the operating system is very stable and intuitive to use...

anyways, i think it's best to judge each product as its own respective device, rather than think in terms of "apple products"


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: frith]
    #13765549 -

Quote:
  feel they are too restrictive. if you want to manage photos you use iPhoto. if you want to manage music you use iTunes.. there arent any choices available. 


picasa, clementine, vlc, i dunno, there are definitely some alternatives.

Quote:
and on the iPhone.. having additional choices are actively banned. its Apple's way or nothing at all. 


truth


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: skatealex2]
    #13765600 -

Well, this is a complicated issue for me.

Limited versatility is less important in certain instances, such as an mp3 player as stated above... but there is also the laptop market, which is generally fairly proprietary even in the PC market so it seems more reasonable to ignore the limited versatility there to some degree. Ironically, I can't STAND the limited flexibility of the ipods because I just want my fucking files by filename but there is no way to do it. Dumb as fuck.

Personally... I own a MacBook Pro for my laptop, which i dual boot with OSX and Windows 7, and I run Windows 7 on my desktop PC, which replaced a flatscreen iMac, which replaced a succession of several other self-built PCs before the iMac.

What I learned from that is... for professional pursuits, such as audio or video work, I prefer macs. Driver support is like 1000% better for my audio processing system in OSX than in W7, so for music it makes more sense to lean towards Mac.

However, obviously, my main rig would be used for music production and not the laptop... but now that I've stabilized with the macbook and the PC, I've realized that the PC makes a GREAT media center in a lot of ways, but that whenever I am manipulating media I prefer to be on a Mac.

I got rid of my iMac and went back to PCs originally because I wanted to play PC games again. But in retrospect I wouldn't mind having an iMac again. I would never be so foolish as to think of a Mac as a gaming platform, but the new 27" iMacs would be pretty sick for my audio work and video editing.

Honestly I end up doing my video editing on my relatively weaker laptop just because iMovie is the most enjoyable movie editor I could find on either platform... and I like being able to off-load my pics from my camera onto the laptop when I'm out and about so it became kind of a no brainer to use Lightroom on my laptop for my picture collection too.

Granted, you can get Lightroom for PC too, but I kind of like the idea of keeping my movies and pics in the same place... it helps for me to be able to sub-divide my computer activities by environment/computer... so this becomes kind of my "MY media center" for all of my own creations, while my desktop has sort of become my "media center" for movies and shit.

So that's way too many thoughts on the subjects.

the tl;dr - I prefer PCs for "playing" things--games, movies, mp3s, etc... but Macs for creative activities.

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #13770131 -

I would like Apple if they were cheaper. Why the fuck would I want an ipod when I can get an off name brand mp3 player for 1/10th the price?

I stopped giving a fuck about looking cool a long time ago.


--------------------
DG
:plur:

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: DeeGee]
    #13770165 -

I have always hated apple producs, mostly for their incompatibility and "pay as you go" programs.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: DeeGee]
    #13770253 -

DeeGee said:
I would like Apple if they were cheaper. Why the fuck would I want an ipod when I can get an off name brand mp3 player for 1/10th the price?

I stopped giving a fuck about looking cool a long time ago.



eh... generally I agree with your point, but the iPod is the exception to the rule... I'm probably even going to enslave myself to their poor file browsing system again... the truth of the matter is, for what ever reason (I think they're in cahoots with other manufacturers) Apple has effectively cornered the high-volume market. There are VERY few alternatives to the 125+gig volume mp3 players... and they're all more expensive for less space...

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #13770398 -

That's true. My girlfriend wanted to get a replacement mp3 player cuz hers was fucking up, so we looked at our options. I convinced her to get a cheap one for the time being, but that was actually pretty hard to do.

Back in the day there used to be tons of companies you'd never heard of offering services. Apple must have either bought them out, or just whooped so much ass in sales that the others gave up. Probably the latter.


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DG
:plur:

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: DeeGee]
    #13770410 -

Yeh... I think they also got a leg up on R&D on hard drives at some point, and managed to start fabbing micro HD's earlier than other people. At least that's what it seemed like.

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: skatealex2]
    #13770487 -

I hate the marketing of Apple and the image that they portray.  They attempt to push this vision of a culturally elite, free-thinking, creative person.  The preface all their products with "i", and market the "uniqueness" of the user.

The reality is that their products seem completely locked down, and they rule their app market with an iron fist. 

Then they sell millions of identical products to customers that flock to the Apple brand like millions of programmed sheep.  All unable to creatively think outside the box and realize that Steve Jobs is not the reincarnation of god.

As for the products, I used mac laptop for three years.  I didn't like it.  It certainly crashed, it felt very sluggish, and it made working with others difficult.  Using macs on unique servers with unique programs is a nightmare, as is sharing documents and data among them and especially not Mac users.

I like the feel and performance of the iphone though, just hate the image that Apple has created of an iphone user.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: badchad]
    #13770525 -

Their computers are so insanely overpriced and I have beef over how they control the apps and what you can and can't do on the iphone/ipad/ipod touch.  It's a pain in the ass to jailbreak the phone but once you do it really is an amazing device.


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Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.


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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #13771125 -

JacquesCousteau said:
Yeh... I think they also got a leg up on R&D on hard drives at some point, and managed to start fabbing micro HD's earlier than other people. At least that's what it seemed like.


apple has never manufactured hard drives. they buy them from other companies.

ive owned 1st, 2nd, 4th (color), 5th, and 6th gen ipods.. ive seen samsung, hitachi, and seagate drives in them.

the only reason i kept buying them early on is because they had the best price per gigabite ratio and the largest drives. and really thats still the case today..

once the 3rd and 4th gen started coming out and they got REALLY popular it was pretty obvious that they were getting special pricing on components. competitors couldnt put out a device with a similar capacity at the same cost. and (again) that is still largely true today.

now that 3g cell coverage is widely available i feel no need to carry any music with me at all.. i can stream it all from home to my cell. couldnt be happier.


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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: frith]
    #13771365 -

Okay, yes, well that still makes sense with what I was saying I think...

Your solution sounds pretty good. :thumbup:

I'd rather see Apple's competition put out worthy counter-products, though, since I don't even have internets on my cell.

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #13786116 -

The question is really, "Do you prefer choice or not"?


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To be honest, I fear the OTD. ---TheMadConductor

Now I'm gonna have to start getting down on my knees and blowing mushrooms... ---RogerRabbit

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Re: Apple Products, do you dig or not? [Re: debianlinux]
    #13790682 -

I am a PC guy.  I like to modify a lot.

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