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Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate?
    #13589513 -

I'm working on a project (the thread is here if you're interested) for which I need to design something of a clear cylindrical tank with a removable top that can be pressure cooked. The best option I've found so far is this container:



http://www.amazon.com/Camwear-Polycarbonate-Round-Storage-container/dp/B0006383MS/

The manufacturer says it can withstand temperatures up to 99C. Clearly they're just trying to cover their asses from anyone trying to cook with it or something and this is not the actual upper limit the container can handle. For reference, a pressure cooker running at 15 psi is right around 120C. From Wiki, polycarbonate's "upper working temperature" is 115-130C. Every other stat of concern (heat deflection, liquid-glass transition, melting) is safely above 120C. From this data I would be comfortable with putting this thing in the PC but it is obviously a close call. So, like the title says, has anyone here pressure cooked polycarbonate?

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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: Alby]
    #13589551 -

I don't know but I would say don't PC it. If it did melt, it would ruin your PC. And that would suck. Get a material that goes above and beyond the temp ranges, not just somewhere close.


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Edited by cole2684 (12/06/10 09:31 AM)

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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: cole2684]
    #13589583 -

For reference, polycarbonate's melting point is 267C.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarbonate

I'm not too worried about melting, I'm mostly concerned with permanent deformation of the container itself since I'll be mounting things to it.

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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: Alby]
    #13591196 -

Not PCable.


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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: Doc_T]
    #13592504 -

I've found a few products made of polycarbonate (e.g. http://www.pressurecooker.com.au/go-174/Accessories/D.LINE_-_Steamer_separator_-_3_compartments ) that are manufactured to withstand pressure cooking... I think I'm going to shoot the Camwear people an email (I doubt they'll respond but maybe) but I might just buy one and try myself. It's so borderline, and these containers would be perfect. I'll post back with results if I do end up trying it out or hearing back from Camwear =]



Edited by Alby (12/06/10 07:22 PM)

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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: Alby]
    #13592562 -

Fascinating.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: Doc_T]
    #13596073 -

Well, it was unexpected, and especially this quickly, but when I woke up this morning I had a response; here are the emails:

I said:
Chip:

My name is ****** and I am a senior Chemical Engineering student at
the University of ******. For a project I'm designing a tank for
solid-state fermentation that I will need to pressure cook at 15 psi for
30 minutes and I'm considering using the Camwear 18 qt. round storage
container as the starting point for this tank.

For reference, a pressure cooker loaded with distilled water and running
at 15 psi reaches a maximum temperature of 120 C. From the polycarbonate
Wiki page, PC has a melting point of 267 C, glass transition temperature
of 150 C, compressive strength of >80 MPa and an "upper working
temperature" range of 115-130 C. This last value is the only concern I
have at the moment.

Cambro reports the upper limit of the temperature range for this product
to be 99 C. I was wondering if this was to cover company liability
in case people try to cook with it on a stove top or something along
those lines. But in the event that 99 C is the actual upper limit, I am
concerned about the product deforming after a short session in the pressure
cooker. I was wondering if you had any guidance for me on this because I
have not found any other alternatives that even come close to being in
two digits. Over the entire course of this project I cannot see
myself pressure cooking the unit more than twenty or thirty times.

Thank you for your time,

******
University of ****** Chemical Engineering
Mycotoxicology Studies





Cambro Senior Engineer Chip Jarvis said:
Hi ****

I do not recommend PC for this application. The melting point you
reference is really the molding temperature; polymeric melting
Temperatures are a bit of a tricky subject. PC might withstand
a single run at 120 C but I would expect it to experience significant
plastic deformation, especially with successive runs.  If you want to
use plastic, try to find something in Ultem material. I know that my
suppliers at Thermo Scientific stock similarly shaped containers in
Ultem. Especially if you plan to attach anything to your tank, do not
use PC, because even slightly deforming you will lose alignment and
break seals.


Best Regards

Chip





What a guy; I guess I'll take half a second to plug Cambro:

http://cool.cambro.com/

They have some really neat stuff that I might buy as well for my "mycotoxicology" (lol), like their modular shelving units and potentially a Camwear Condiment Jar, but clearly, not for condiments =)

Okay, moving on, Ultem is apparently the trade name for a polymer called polyetherimide (PEI). Wiki says: "Ultem has high mechanical properties and performs in continuous use to 340°F (170°C)." Bingo--that's exactly what I want. Amazon has one hit, that's the perfect size to fit in my 23qt Presto:

http://www.amazon.com/Thermo-Scientific-Nalgene-multipurpose-polyetherimide/dp/B003NUVX6O/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1291753492&sr=1-2

...however, it's $260. I still plan on getting it, but probably not for another month. I'm going to shoot Thermo Scientific an email to see if they'll hook up a university discount but in the meantime...

Cliff notes: DO NOT pressure cook polycarbonate if you want it to last

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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: Alby]
    #13596103 -

Told ya. :lol:

Cambro makes some great stuff though. I've used a lot of their tubs.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: Doc_T]
    #13596475 -

Hehe yea you got me =P Too bad though, $40 sounds a lot nicer than $260. The rest of the stuff I want to build for this project shouldn't total more than $50 though so once I can put together the scratch for this thing I should be off and rolling.

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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: Alby]
    #13596823 -

Polypropylene or glass.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: Doc_T]
    #13597273 -

Well I want to be able to easily modify the container itself, not just the top, so for the moment I'm excluding glass because I just don't have the tools or experience with drilling glass and I can't imagine it would be that easy. Plus my goal is for it to be extremely durable and I'd just be worried about breaking it I think. Polypropylene is a thought... in my initial research I had lumped that in with polycarbonate due to their relatively similar properties but I think I'm going to look into it. Actually, I might as well also look into working with glass, too, because I'm sure that wouldn't be too expensive either. Thanks again

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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: Alby]
    #13597318 -

Polypropylene is PCable but not transparent.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: Doc_T]
    #13597524 -

I thought that 15 psi = 250F  ??? (below ~260)


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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #13597741 -

Yep, correct. I was just giving everything in Celsius because that's what I'm used to  :smilingpuppy:

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Re: Has anyone pressure cooked polycarbonate? [Re: Alby]
    #13599755 -

I have successfully used corning polycarbonate storage jars in the autoclave.

http://www.corning.com/lifesciences/us_canada/en/whats_new/square_polycarbonate_storage_bottles.aspx

Though I throw them out after 2-3 runs as the polycarbonate become brittle and chances of breaking increase (corning recommends discarding after a single autoclave use).

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