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Re: Black boys score far behind white students [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #13464357 -

Mr. Mushrooms said:
I've heard the argument.  It blows goats.


which argument and what about it is flawed?


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Re: Black boys score far behind white students [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #13464361 -

Mr. Mushrooms said:
Well, apparently, different studies produce different results.  The studies I have seen showed elevated IQ's rather than lower ones.  :shrug:


Post 'em.  :doublefu:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Black boys score far behind white students [Re: learningtofly]
    #13464382 -

The idea that race does not exist.  This is another asinine idea from the ivory towers of liberal academia.  They're full of shit.


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Re: Black boys score far behind white students [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #13464437 -

Mr. Mushrooms said:
The idea that race does not exist.  This is another asinine idea from the ivory towers of liberal academia.  They're full of shit.


Cool, since quite possibly every academic disagrees with you, can you please give me some evidence showing that race exists?

Considering that there is no biological evidence in support of race, that may be one of the dumbest statements I've ever read.


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Edited by learningtofly (11/10/10 04:36 PM)

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Re: Black boys score far behind white students [Re: learningtofly]
    #13464462 -

Hey man, everyone is entitled to believe what they want to believe.  I shouldn't have and won't give evidence for the obvious.


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Re: Black boys score far behind white students [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #13464480 -

Actually, no. You can believe whatever the fuck you want to believe but that doesn't make it true.

The statement that one "shouldn't have and won't give evidence for the obvious." is downright retarded. First of all, whenever giving an argument, it has to be backed up. Second of all, since no one worth their salt agrees with you, clearly it isn't obvious


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Re: Black boys score far behind white students [Re: deCypher]
    #13464487 -

deCypher said:
Even if a specific race were statistically smarter than another, good luck publishing your results in today's political climate.


The Bell Curve got plenty of mainstream coverage.

Mr. Mushrooms said:
The idea that race does not exist.  This is another asinine idea from the ivory towers of liberal academia.  They're full of shit.


You know, I've heard a lot of arguments on both sides of that issue, and I think it's a rather ambiguous matter.  There are definitely different genetic population groups, but they don't divide up as neatly as our concept of race does.  There is no one set of genetic traits that all members of a particular race share in common.  Some still try to appeal to things like Lewontin's fallacy in defending the concept of race, but most population geneticists prefer more exact terms like clines rather than race.  So to say that race is a social construct is not to deny that there are biological differences between population groups, but merely that race is more of a convenient social classification rather than a useful scientific concept.


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Edited by Silversoul (11/10/10 05:00 PM)

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Re: Black boys score far behind white students [Re: Silversoul]
    #13464595 -

Silversoul said:
deCypher said:
Even if a specific race were statistically smarter than another, good luck publishing your results in today's political climate.


The Bell Curve got plenty of mainstream coverage.

Mr. Mushrooms said:
The idea that race does not exist.  This is another asinine idea from the ivory towers of liberal academia.  They're full of shit.


You know, I've heard a lot of arguments on both sides of that issue, and I think it's a rather ambiguous matter.  There are definitely different genetic population groups, but they don't divide up as neatly as our concept of race does.  There is no one set of genetic traits that all members of a particular race share in common.  Some still try to appeal to things like Lewontin's fallacy in defending the concept of race, but most population geneticists prefer more exact terms like clines rather than race.  So to say that race is a social construct is not to deny that there are biological differences between population groups, but merely that race is more of a convenient social classification rather than a useful scientific concept.


Yep yep.  Thanks for the intelligent interjection.  The concept of race isn't necessarily a biological one.  That's where most people err.

And I'm a big fan of Murray and Hernstein.  Gee, does it show?  :grin:


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Re: Black boys score far behind white students [Re: Silversoul]
    #13464844 -

Silversoul said:
deCypher said:
Even if a specific race were statistically smarter than another, good luck publishing your results in today's political climate.


The Bell Curve got plenty of mainstream coverage.


Do you think any books arguing for race-based differences in intelligence will have a good chance getting published now though?  The Bell Curve stirred up a hornet's nest of controversy.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Black boys score far behind white students [Re: deCypher]
    #13464908 -

deCypher said:
Silversoul said:
deCypher said:
Even if a specific race were statistically smarter than another, good luck publishing your results in today's political climate.


The Bell Curve got plenty of mainstream coverage.


Do you think any books arguing for race-based differences in intelligence will have a good chance getting published now though?  The Bell Curve stirred up a hornet's nest of controversy.


I'm sure some BNP supporters would love to publish such a book.


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Re: Black boys score far behind white students [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #13465109 -

deCypher said:
Silversoul said:
deCypher said:
Even if a specific race were statistically smarter than another, good luck publishing your results in today's political climate.


The Bell Curve got plenty of mainstream coverage.


Do you think any books arguing for race-based differences in intelligence will have a good chance getting published now though?  The Bell Curve stirred up a hornet's nest of controversy.



I think you may have been a bit inspecific in your language.

It is noncontroversial that blacks, i.e., have lower IQ's and are less educated and "dumber" (by most metrics of decent empiricle basis) that, i.e., whites in the US

Are you suggesting rather that race causes this difference (or discussing the ability to assert such a claim)?  This is what I see to be a controversial matter- one I personally see no evidence for.

learningtofly said:
Mr. Mushrooms said:
The idea that race does not exist.  This is another asinine idea from the ivory towers of liberal academia.  They're full of shit.


Cool, since quite possibly every academic disagrees with you, can you please give me some evidence showing that race exists?

Considering that there is no biological evidence in support of race, that may be one of the dumbest statements I've ever read.


I think it is much more accurate to say that their is little genetic basis for our traditional concepts of race- they don't comport with phylogenetic definitions of race generally used in the field.

To say that there is no basis to the notion of dispartate races as genetically distinct is a different matter.  Surely skin color, what most racial classifications seem to be based upon, is evidence of this plain enough to anyone.


CycleThoughts said:
What do you think are the reasons for differences in IQ among "race"?  Do you think genetics play any role in determining potential intelligence?



Of course- this is non controversial.

I am not sure what the differences are caused by, it certainly isn't those disputing a racially-caused basis exists that bear the burden of elucidating the reasons for the disparity.

I think it most likely that cultural differences between the populations are the most prominent cause, followed by the effects of racial discrimination and other economic differences correlated with race of independent origin (i.e. just not having much wealth compared to european americans).

The notion of victimhood and unhelpful culture valuing ignorance and economic failure and detesting success and education are likely the most prominent cultural problems resulting in these differences.

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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