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Spider Murder
    #12653014 -

A spider on my wall hath risen a thought:

In regards to killing, it seems humans follow some arbitrary scale of how much each being deserves to live. For example, killing a human is punishable by death. Killing a dog or a cat is heavily frowned upon. Killing a cow is okay because we're going to eat it. And killing a spider in your home is often a thoughtless act of "housekeeping."

Who's to say that the spider does not deserve life as much as the human who seeks to smite it? Our survival instinct tells us we are the most important species, and our souls are holier than all others. But this is our merely the survival instinct creating moral illusions. Why does our "higher understanding" bestow upon us a higher right to life. The spider feels pain, and fear of death. If you would not kill a human, how can you really justify killing a spider?

Thoughts?


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"I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do."

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Cosmic]
    #12653041 -

CM1590 said:
In regards to killing, it seems humans follow some arbitrary scale of how much each being deserves to live. For example, killing a human is punishable by death.

This is because humans live in communities with other humans, and since most humans do not want to be murdered, they create such a law as that.



CM1590 said:
Killing a dog or a cat is heavily frowned upon. Killing a cow is okay because we're going to eat it. And killing a spider in your home is often a thoughtless act of "housekeeping."

Some people eat dogs and cats, just like we eat cows--killing a cow out of cold-blood is just as frowned upon as killing a dog/cat out of cold-blood.



CM1590 said:
Who's to say that the spider does not deserve life as much as the human who seeks to smite it?

Anybody--what one considers to deserve life is subjective.



CM1590 said:
Our survival instinct tells us we are the most important species, and our souls are holier than all others.

No they don't.



CM1590 said:
But this is our merely the survival instinct creating moral illusions. Why does our "higher understanding" bestow upon us a higher right to life. The spider feels pain, and fear of death. If you would not kill a human, how can you really justify killing a spider?

Any other animal would do the same were it in our position.


We kill bugs for many reasons--entertainment, fear, housecleaning, etc. I personally do not feel for bugs as much as I do for humans in general because I cannot at all relate to a bug, I guess. I simply do not care if I accidentally step on a beetle, but I would feel a considerable amount of grief if I accidentally killed a human.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Poid]
    #12653055 -

It's hard to empathize with something when it's so small that we can't hear it die in agony.

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: deranger]
    #12653059 -

Plus they look creepy, and we know that many of them are poisonous.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Cosmic]
    #12653060 -

A Brown Recluse spider KILLED someone my co-worker knew here in Miami. She lives in Hialeah, just moved into a house with an 18 month old, and there are Recluse in her home and yard! :eek: Have you ever seen what a bite can do? I saw a pic of a foot so destroyed by necrosis, they had to amputate it! Are you f**kin' kidding me?! My co-worker's husband saw a bunch in his back yard tree and took a blowtorch to them. I love trees but I'd probably burn it down, tent the house, poison the shit out of the yard, and make the baby sleep with a mosquito net. I'd keep a can of Real Kill, Black Flag, or Raid in every room. Placed in a jar with a Black Widow, the Widow loses.

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/health/2010/05/25/2010-05-25_georgia_woman_survives_poisonous_spider_bite_but_loses_a_breast.html

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #12653081 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
My co-worker's husband saw a bunch in his back yard tree and took a blowtorch to them. [/url]


pretty pointless if you ask me. Fear compels people to do a lot of unnecessary things.


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"I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do."

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Cosmic]
    #12656111 -

Maybe so, but I ended up dreaming about spiders because of this post. When I woke up, my Lady pointed out a fairly large arachnid outside her bathroom window. I couldn't identify it exactly, probably a 'striped 'garden spider,' but, I was compelled to spray it. Hey, it could've been a variation of Recluse. I looked closely through the window. I leave the 'crab spiders' alone, even though their webs get in my face, but this one looked possibly deadly.

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #12657336 -

I'm one of the weird ones. I love spiders. That's not to say they aren't creepy as hell, but I'll put my hand down and let them climb aboard if I want them out of my living space. Just take 'em to a door and drop 'em off.

Haven't had the opportunity to test my metal with something I know to be poisonous, but the little ones are good practice. I'm sure some I've handled have been poisonous, but naturally none of them have bit me.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Kickle]
    #12657380 -

If a person is trespassing in your house you have the right to knock them out of do whatever you can to get them away if you feel threatened. Like, if you live on a huge property of land and are scopin out through some binoculars and see some dude ravaging and get scared it is totally legal to bust out your sniper and take aim for his knee, if he bleeds to death it won't be on you. Kind of the same with spiders. When I see them out in nature, I don't do shit, its his area, let him live. In my zone, GTFO FOOL!, and I crush his sorry life because he is trespassing on my shit.


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"It's Gloom as unpredicted on this earth. I realize all the uncountable manifestations the thinking-mind invents to place wall of horror before pure realization that there is no wall and there is no horror just transcendental empty kissable milk light of everlasting eternity's pure and perfect empty nature"- Kerouac

Party Tent Brewing

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: kissablemilklight]
    #12658676 -

All of us and all of the bugs are dead in the end, so do what you will.  I try to let bugs out alive...sometimes...sometimes kill them.  Depends how holy I'm feeling.  If it comes to killing I try to make it quick, no pulling legs off one by one or anything.  I don't find death by my hand entertaining.

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Cosmic]
    #12660423 -

Don't just kill mindlessly. Not even a spider. Have you any idee how incredible complex a spider is? How long it took the known universe to arrive at 'a spider'? Just try and raise lets say, a duck, from the egg until full grown. That takes a lot of time, effort and patience. If you can create a duck or a spider for that matter, as easily as you can kill it, maybe yes, go ahead mindlessly killing it. But if not, please consider some care and respect for life next time you're about to put your foot on one. Kind regards.

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Ahimsa]
    #12660617 -

i went through a buddhist phase. i also went through a wacky dissonant psychostate phase at the same time. it was lame.

in conclusion, these days i am finally throwing off the not killing bugs thing. now when i see bugs i kill them out of duty. i think of myself as some dreadful ogre in a fairytale. it is gratifying. squash those bugs. fucking buddhist nonsense. it is my right as a higher and conscious being.

also, having been passive/pacifist in nature for a long time (developed in school... i flatter myself to think it was the prudence of a fairly intellectual and empathetic mind)

...lately life has been maturing to a point to suffer less evil. the moral compass is sharpening. i am suddenly engaged with the potentiality of standing up for oneself better, or others, not taking shit from pricks.

is this an OT rant? very likely.

act with decision in such matters always trying to avoid suffering and considering morality. i don't think there is a moral question in killing a bug. it is not capable of consciousness nor therefore suffering.


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read books

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Ahimsa]
    #12660633 -

I have arachnophobia so if the spider is bigger than a pea (with legs) I have to throw a book on it or something because I'm not going near that thing, however I try to let them out as much as possible. This is interesting read because I had this dilemma just this morning. I've been feeling like shit all day after a great mushie trip yesterday (slang for microscopy) and saw a little spider running around in my living room and decided to get a dust pan and let him out, which I felt good about.

I saw a gif once of two guys kicking a cat 10m into a wall and then laughing their asses off. If I were there I would have shot them, no doubt about it. If someone abused my fuzzball I have no problem with taking their life. However I've never even punched anyone in my life, but be nice to animals :smile:


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Fuck seats! Drove all the way from LA for this show.

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Cosmic]
    #12661263 -

Funny I once saw a fly stuck in a spider web and I wanted to let the fly out.

But then I realized I would make the spider go hungry.

We would have to convince spiders to eat tofurky to end the cycle of suffering. Otherwise any disturbance in the web will have interesting effects down the chain of causality.

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Freedom]
    #12661367 -

For every bug in your house that you kill, thousands of more competant bugs survive.  By smashing those you find in your house, you are allowing evolution to continue to perfect  it's line of more intelligent efficient human-raping buggies.  I say let the weaklings survive.  It's in our favor to muddle their gene pool.

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #12661503 -

Oweyervishice said:
For every bug in your house that you kill, thousands of more competant bugs survive.  By smashing those you find in your house, you are allowing evolution to continue to perfect  it's line of more intelligent efficient human-raping buggies.  I say let the weaklings survive.  It's in our favor to muddle their gene pool.


Never thought of it that way. Nice post.

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Glow2]
    #12664184 -

Most of the time I kill spiders because when they are inside my house it disturbs me but there are times where I feel bad and save them. There was once a spider in the bathroom sink that I started washing down but I saw it struggling to stay out of the water so I stopped and let it crawl onto a magazine and I took it outside.


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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Michi Mi]
    #12664206 -

You save spiders? From what? From yourself? :lol:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Kickle]
    #12664292 -

I have been thinking about this very thing, and what you say is true. We decide whether or not to kill another animal based on how much it pleases us. As social animals, other humans have the potential to please us the most.

As for spiders, I don't know what it is about them, but I hate spiders, and if I see one everything else is on hold until it's dead. Maybe I should feel guilty, but I just can't explain it. They have a few too many legs and only two body parts and if you get caught in their web you gotta somehow get the web off and then check your clothes for spiders and who knows if you got it on you in the first place let alone got it off.

And as for mosquitoes and moths, technically they do impinge on you. Squiters transmit disease and suck blood, and you know something? That's MY BLOOD! I can't very well karate chop a mosquito to deter it, and yelling doesn't work either. Hence dead bugs.

Moths eat your clothes. Those are MY CLOTHES! I don't grow enough fur to go without clothes.

Besides all this how much do you really deny a bug when you kill it? They don't live long anyhow.

And last I don't think bugs are self-aware. Anything that isn't self-aware has to be fair game because it only feels pain as a matter of instinct, not awareness. Right?

I don't really know if humans will ever become square with nature based on where we are now. All I know for sure is that I hate spiders that can touch me.

P.S. For some reason, I don't have a problem with daddy long legs. They look too brittle and benign and sometimes I just let them be.

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Re: Spider Murder [Re: Cosmic]
    #12664592 -

CM1590 said:
A spider on my wall hath risen a thought:

In regards to killing, it seems humans follow some arbitrary scale of how much each being deserves to live. For example, killing a human is punishable by death. Killing a dog or a cat is heavily frowned upon. Killing a cow is okay because we're going to eat it. And killing a spider in your home is often a thoughtless act of "housekeeping."

Who's to say that the spider does not deserve life as much as the human who seeks to smite it? Our survival instinct tells us we are the most important species, and our souls are holier than all others. But this is our merely the survival instinct creating moral illusions. Why does our "higher understanding" bestow upon us a higher right to life. The spider feels pain, and fear of death. If you would not kill a human, how can you really justify killing a spider?

Thoughts?


Yeah, we're at the Shroomery.


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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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