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The Starchild Skull
    #12569873 -

The Starchild Skull: http://starchildproject.com/



Introduction to the Starchild Skull by Lloyd Pye:




OVERVIEW OF THE SKULL

>  The skull's bone is about half as thick as normal human bone.

>  The bone weighs about half as much as normal human bone.

>  The bone is substantially stronger than any known bone on planet Earth, with a mineral profile more like dental enamel than bone.

>  The bone was radio carbon dated in 2003 to be 900 years old (+/- 40 years).

>  The skull was reportedly found in an abandoned mine tunnel in the Copper Canyon region about 200 miles SW of Chihuahua, Mexico.

>  The skull is morphologically unique, and does not match the physical profile of any known human deformity.

>  The bone of the skull contains an as yet unidentified reddish residue that had never been seen before in bone (this is not desiccated bone marrow).

>  The bone of the skull contains microscopic fibers that have never been seen before in the bone of any animal.

>  Attempts to recover DNA from the skull easily produced its mitochondrial DNA, which proved its mother was fully human. However, no nuclear DNA could be recovered using human-only primers, which strongly indicates that the skull's father was something other than a typical human



I hope you found this to be interesting!

-Abe

Abraham Hafiz Rodriguez
M1 Medical Student
B.S. Biology / Neurobiology


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: PookztA] * 2
    #12570258 -

They did a DNA test and found human DNA. What more do you want?

It's not very likely that aliens can breed with humans. At he end of the video this guy says that the new DNA evidence is going to prove that it was an alien. Why is he so certain? Not a very open mind to already know what the test is going to bring without the test being done. Sounds like a case of wishful thinking.

You are a medical student with a BS in biology? Do you think it is likely that aliens have human DNA and can mate with humans?

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: Annom]
    #12570610 -

Annom said:
They did a DNA test and found human DNA. What more do you want?



check it out Annom...

from: http://starchildproject.com/research.htm

"In the summer of 2003 the Starchild's DNA was sequenced and analyzed by Trace Genetics, a laboratory dedicated to the recovery of ancient DNA. (At 900 years of age, the Starchild DNA is considered "ancient.") Two types of DNA were sought, its mitochondrial DNA (which contains only the mother's DNA) and its nuclear DNA (the entire genomic package that comes from both parents). Its mitochondrial DNA was easy to recover and proved its mother was human. In six full attempts its nuclear DNA could not be recovered. This was an overwhelming indication that its father was something other than entirely human, but that was all that could be determined by that process. What was needed, but was unavailable at the time, was a test to recover the entire genome so the genetic heritage of both parents could be recovered and studied in detail."

"In the summer of 2006 a company called 454 Life Sciences (now a Roche Applied System company) announced it had developed entirely new technology that would allow the sequencing of an entire genome base-pair by base-pair, all three billion of them (in a typical human). This was exactly what was needed to establish the Starchild's genetic heritage, but the cost of analysis (multi-millions at that early point) put it well beyond the reach of the Starchild Project in 2006. However, everyone understood that improvements in the technology would drop the price over time, so the team accepted that testing could not be initiated until sometime in 2009 or 2010."

"Now testing with the 454 Life Science technology is set to begin some time in 2009. This testing will utilize the Genome Sequencer™ system, which is fully capable of recovering and sequencing the entire genome of the Starchild Skull. When this result is obtained, its genome can then be compared in every detail to other known genomes and the question of its humanity can conclusively be resolved."

Most recent update, from Lloyd Pye's official facebook page:

"The Starchild's nuclear DNA has been confirmed as existing and recoverable, so now we are pointing everything toward the recovery of its entire genome. History in the making!"


So it seems as though the nuclear DNA has not been recovered yet, but the maternal mitochondrial DNA has. So, there is no way they have determined whether this is a human or an alien or a hybrid of both, because the DNA in the nucleus of the osteocytes of the skull still have not been fully extracted and analyzed. Sounds like the information will be out soon, hopefully in the next year! Exciting times to be alive :smile:


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: PookztA]
    #12570792 -

Yeah, but answer my question, how likely is it for hypothetical aliens to be able to mate with humans?

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: Annom]
    #12570845 -

Annom said:
Yeah, but answer my question, how likely is it for hypothetical aliens to be able to mate with humans?



My answer to your question is another question:

Why would the female human and male alien have to physically mate?

We splice DNA all the time these days when we create genetically modified organisms, so if the paternal DNA is identified as alien, isn't it more likely that this skull came from a genetically engineered hybrid organism made from male alien DNA spliced with female human DNA?

What do you think?


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: PookztA] * 1
    #12570984 -

I don't mean physically mate. Why would they have DNA that is compatible with human DNA, even if they have Earth like DNA at all?

But yes, I'm sure that aliens able to travel to Earth are able to engineer some DNA if the want.

Isn't it much more likely just a human mutant? I mean, it just doesn't make sense to me that advanced intelligent life would come to Earth, do something with human DNA to create one (or maybe a few) modified humans and then leave Earth again. I can make alien theories for all unexplained phenomena.

It's just very unlikely to be alien work and you have to accept the simpler explanation for now. It's good that someone checks the DNA, but I don't think it is very promising.

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: Annom]
    #12571019 -

Annom said:
I don't mean physically mate. Why would they have DNA that is compatible with human DNA, even if they have Earth like DNA at all?

But yes, I'm sure that aliens able to travel to Earth are able to engineer some DNA if the want.

Isn't it much more likely just a human mutant? I mean, it just doesn't make sense to me that advanced intelligent life would come to Earth, do something with human DNA to create one (or maybe a few) modified humans and then leave Earth again. I can make alien theories for all unexplained phenomena.

It's just very unlikely to be alien work and you have to accept the simpler explanation for now. It's good that someone checks the DNA, but I don't think it is very promising.



Some mainstream scientists try to say it could be a mutation, but truth be told, there is absolutely no mutation of this type in all of recorded history. Plus, there are lots of other aspects of the skull which show that this was definitely not human. For example, the bone is twice as strong, but only half the weight, because it has a strange composition. There are highly dense carbon fibers that run throughout the bony matrix of the skull, so even though it is much thinner than a human skull, it is actually much stronger / durable. This type of bone is not found in humans, and no recorded mutation can explain this fact either. The skull lacks occipital protuberances, which would not compeltely disappear due to one or even a few small genetic mutations. The eye sockets are very shallow, far more shallow than most human orbits. There is a lot more too, I am just listing some of the evidence for ya. Feel free to check out the website listed at the top of the original thread for much more information if you are interested.

Hopefully they get that nuclear DNA extracted soon so we can analyze the DNA of the father, since the mother's DNA is all we have right now.

Thanks for discussing this mate, I have to get back to studying now.

Cheers Annom,

-Abe


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: PookztA]
    #12574527 -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starchild_skull

Sounds human to me.  Male too.

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: PookztA]
    #12574705 -

Lloyd Pye is my bro. No one is 100% accurate, though his work does raise many interesting questions.


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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: Annom]
    #12575238 -

Alien!!!

I think that the mother was abducted and had an alien fetus implanted into her tummy :shocked:


--------------------
"Be yourself, because those who matter don't care, and those who care don't matter." by Dr. Seuss

Trade List!!

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: Antii]
    #12575335 -

Wow Mr.middle im 15 minutes in and i can bearly look away...


--------------------
"Be yourself, because those who matter don't care, and those who care don't matter." by Dr. Seuss

Trade List!!

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #12575424 -

HarveyWalbanger said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starchild_skull

Sounds human to me.  Male too.




Yeah, I took one look at that skull and thought "progeria", though it seems some other abnormalities might be more likely.

Quote:
The skull consists of calcium hydroxyapatite, the normal material of mammalian bone.



Quote:
DNA testing in 1999 at BOLD, a forensic DNA lab in Vancouver, British Columbia found standard X  and Y chromosomes in two samples taken from the skull, "conclusive evidence that the child was not only human (and male), but both of his parents must have been human as well, for each must have contributed one of the human sex chromosomes".



Quote:
Potential explanations for the skull's unusual features include the use of cradle boarding on a hydrocephalic  child,[8]  brachycephaly, Crouzon syndrome,[9]  congenital hydrocephalus, or potentially progeria.



Pooktza, I am surprised that as a medical student you cannot see the significance of the evidence that that is a human skull and the insignificance of any evidence to the contrary...

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: ChuangTzu] * 1
    #12575476 -

ChuangTzu said:
Pooktza, I am surprised that as a medical student you cannot see the significance of the evidence that that is a human skull and the insignificance of any evidence to the contrary...



im surprised anyone can be into conspiracy theories so much..


--------------------

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: frith]
    #12575533 -

There is no known human mutation, deformity, or abnormality, EVER in all of recorded history, that could explain even a significant percentage of the features of this skull.

This is not proven to be a human skull so I don't see how people can be so misinformed that they think it is. Please do not repeat hearsay information or Wikipedia information.

As for the information you took from Wikipedia...


Wikipedia has a small group of moderators that censor and edit information that they do not like.

Here, this is a quote directly taken from Lloyd Pye (the one who has permission from the skull's owners to do research on it), regarding the unfair and inaccurate editing and censorship of Wikipedia:

Lloyd Pye said: "For years I have been engaged in a running battle with the knuckleheads who "edit" Wikipedia. They flagrantly distort any "alternative" views of mainstream science, so you can imagine the hack jobs they've done to my bio and the Starchild skull. Now I have solid confirmation that very much is rotten in Wikipedia land. ...Check it out: http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblogs/davesmith_au.htm "

and I had my own recent run in with a small group of rude Wikipedia moderators censoring me and deleting information I was posting, even though I was adding accurate and important information to certain Wikipedia articles. You can read about my censorship experience here: http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=283&Itemid=60



OVERVIEW OF THE SKULL

>  The skull's bone is about half as thick as normal human bone.

>  The bone weighs about half as much as normal human bone.

>  The bone is substantially stronger than any known bone on planet Earth, with a mineral profile more like dental enamel than bone.

>  The bone was radio carbon dated in 2003 to be 900 years old (+/- 40 years).

>  The skull was reportedly found in an abandoned mine tunnel in the Copper Canyon region about 200 miles SW of Chihuahua, Mexico.

>  The skull is morphologically unique, and does not match the physical profile of any known human deformity.

>  The bone of the skull contains an as yet unidentified reddish residue that had never been seen before in bone (this is not desiccated bone marrow).

>  The bone of the skull contains microscopic fibers that have never been seen before in the bone of any animal.

>  Attempts to recover DNA from the skull easily produced its mitochondrial DNA, which proved its mother was fully human. However, no nuclear DNA could be recovered using human-only primers, which strongly indicates that the skull's father was something other than a typical human


from: http://starchildproject.com/research.htm

"In the summer of 2003 the Starchild's DNA was sequenced and analyzed by Trace Genetics, a laboratory dedicated to the recovery of ancient DNA. (At 900 years of age, the Starchild DNA is considered "ancient.") Two types of DNA were sought, its mitochondrial DNA (which contains only the mother's DNA) and its nuclear DNA (the entire genomic package that comes from both parents). Its mitochondrial DNA was easy to recover and proved its mother was human. In six full attempts its nuclear DNA could not be recovered. This was an overwhelming indication that its father was something other than entirely human, but that was all that could be determined by that process. What was needed, but was unavailable at the time, was a test to recover the entire genome so the genetic heritage of both parents could be recovered and studied in detail."

"In the summer of 2006 a company called 454 Life Sciences (now a Roche Applied System company) announced it had developed entirely new technology that would allow the sequencing of an entire genome base-pair by base-pair, all three billion of them (in a typical human). This was exactly what was needed to establish the Starchild's genetic heritage, but the cost of analysis (multi-millions at that early point) put it well beyond the reach of the Starchild Project in 2006. However, everyone understood that improvements in the technology would drop the price over time, so the team accepted that testing could not be initiated until sometime in 2009 or 2010."

"Now testing with the 454 Life Science technology is set to begin some time in 2009. This testing will utilize the Genome Sequencer™ system, which is fully capable of recovering and sequencing the entire genome of the Starchild Skull. When this result is obtained, its genome can then be compared in every detail to other known genomes and the question of its humanity can conclusively be resolved."

Most recent update, from Lloyd Pye's official facebook page:

"The Starchild's nuclear DNA has been confirmed as existing and recoverable, so now we are pointing everything toward the recovery of its entire genome. History in the making!"


So it seems as though the nuclear DNA has not been recovered yet, but the maternal mitochondrial DNA has. So, there is no way they have determined whether this is a human or an alien or a hybrid of both, because the DNA in the nucleus of the osteocytes of the skull still have not been fully extracted and analyzed. Sounds like the information will be out soon, hopefully in the next year! Exciting times to be alive :smile:

lots of info here too: http://www.starchildproject.com/reports.htm

(please do not make the mistake of taking Wikipedia's word for it over other more credible sources.)

lots of good info here too: http://www.starchildproject.com/reports_11Experts.htm


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

Edited by PookztA (05/16/10 09:10 PM)

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: PookztA]
    #12575820 -

Just emailed Mr. Pye to get more info, got a pretty quick response from him:

From: Lloyd Pye [mailto:lloydpye@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 10:13 PM
To: 'Abraham Hafiz Rodriguez'
Subject: RE: question

Abraham:

Good question! We had an investor lined up and ready to go, then two weeks ago he suffered a serious stroke and does not look like he will recover. We have to start from scratch tomorrow on our quest for a new investor.

As soon as we have the money from the investor, whoever they might be, we will sign contracts with the laboratory where the geneticist works. At that point their names can become public. However, as you must know if you're a medical student, nothing definitive can be determined until the Starchild's entire genome has been sequenced, and then it has to be compared against the genomes of humans, chimps, gorillas, and Neanderthals (to the extent the latter is possible).

Basically, we're talking well before the end of this year for the recovery of the genome, and by the middle of next year for the full analysis to compare all its points of concurrence and divergence with other genomes.

Lloyd

________________________________________
From: Abraham Hafiz Rodriguez [mailto:abrahm@mindoutpsyde.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 10:01 PM
To: lloyd@lloydpye.com
Subject: question
Dear Mr. Pye,

When will the nuclear DNA results be available to the public?

Thank you,

-Abe

Abraham Hafiz Rodriguez
M1 Medical Student
B.S. Biology / Neurobiology


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: PookztA]
    #12576009 -

An investor?  Why would you call the person who funds this study an investor?

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: PookztA]
    #12576056 -

PookztA said:
As for the information you took from Wikipedia...


Wikipedia has a small group of moderators that censor and edit information that they do not like.




The information was on wikipedia but it was sourced from sites which you yourself have linked.  Check the references.

By the way, where is any evidence that the bone is stronger than normal bone, lighter than normal bone, has unknown fibers embedded in it, etc.?  Somebody said that, but who?  How do they know?  How did they measure these things?  Where are photos of the hairs, etc.?  For all we know, that has all been entirely made up.

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #12576786 -

ChuangTzu said:
PookztA said:
As for the information you took from Wikipedia...


Wikipedia has a small group of moderators that censor and edit information that they do not like.




The information was on wikipedia but it was sourced from sites which you yourself have linked.  Check the references.

By the way, where is any evidence that the bone is stronger than normal bone, lighter than normal bone, has unknown fibers embedded in it, etc.?  Somebody said that, but who?  How do they know?  How did they measure these things?  Where are photos of the hairs, etc.?  For all we know, that has all been entirely made up.



I had already checked the sources, and some of them I had posted, but some of them I had not. For example, the claim that the skull has been identified as a human male, was referenced to an opinionated article. Although that article was written by an M.D., it was an opinionated article, and not research / evidence-based.

I stick to the evidence when making up my mind about things, and that is why I am not making up my mind until the nuclear DNA results are in.

I think they refer to the financer as an 'investor', because he would be 'investing' his money in funding the project. Whether the reward is moral, educational, or financial, I see no reason to dwell on the fact that Mr. Pye says they are looking for an "investor", i.e. someone to "invest" in their project and pay for the DNA analysis.

I encourage you all to form your own opinions, but I am not going to argue about this because I am not saying that this skull is for sure an alien-human hybrid, I simply want to wait for more evidence before I make up my mind. In the mean time, this skull is not explainable by any human mutations, abnormalities, or physical alterations (e.g. cradle boarding), so there is an extreme lack of evidence to suggest that this skull is certainly a human skull. Like I said, I am waiting for more evidence to come out, and I hope you will wait for that evidence too.

One thing I found extremely interesting is that the skull lacks external occipital protuberances. Although the skull does have an occipital bone, the bone lacks the occipital protuberances which are very important structures on the skull. These are points of muscle attachment, so if this was a human, the back / spine muscles would have no place to attach on the rear of the skull. This cannot be explained by any small set of human mutations, and this cannot be explained by cradle boarding or any human manipulation of the skull. This is a significant and massive genetic change, because the occipital bone is present, but the bone lacks occipital protuberances. There are many other anomalies too, but I found that one to be extremely interesting because we just got done with our deep head and neck + skull unit in the cadaver lab here at school.

Thanks for discussing,

-Abe


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

Edited by PookztA (05/17/10 12:45 AM)

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: PookztA]
    #12577158 -

PookztA said:
I had already checked the sources, and some of them I had posted, but some of them I had not. For example, the claim that the skull has been identified as a human male, was referenced to an opinionated article. Although that article was written by an M.D., it was an opinionated article, and not research / evidence-based.




I believe it was referencing the fact that the skull contains Y-chromosomes...

What about the fibers, density, strength, etc.?

You can't say that no mutation or set of mutations could have led to those changes because we don't have a good enough grasp on genetics to know what mutations would be necessary to cause those changes.  It is possible that we have not seen this mutation before, but that does not mean it hasn't happened other times, just that it wasn't documented.  And even if this is an isolated mutation or set of mutations that hasn't happened since, that just means it has a very low frequency, it does not mean it is impossible.

I bet that before mitochondrial DNA was found in the skull, people were running around claiming it was 100% alien.  Now that it must be 50% human, they're claiming it's only 50% alien.

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Re: The Starchild Skull [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #12577325 -

Hydrocephalus

the dude is just using the skull to sell books, make a name for himself, etc etc. scam.

imo at least

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