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InvisibleSilversoul
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Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming
    #5923747 - 08/01/06 11:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Scientist publishes 'escape route' from global warming
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Published: 31 July 2006

A Nobel Prize-winning scientist has drawn up an emergency plan to save the world from global warming, by altering the chemical makeup of Earth's upper atmosphere. Professor Paul Crutzen, who won a Nobel Prize in 1995 for his work on the hole in the ozone layer, believes that political attempts to limit man-made greenhouse gases are so pitiful that a radical contingency plan is needed.

In a polemical scientific essay to be published in the August issue of the journal Climate Change, he says that an "escape route" is needed if global warming begins to run out of control.

Professor Crutzen has proposed a method of artificially cooling the global climate by releasing particles of sulphur in the upper atmosphere, which would reflect sunlight and heat back into space. The controversial proposal is being taken seriously by scientists because Professor Crutzen has a proven track record in atmospheric research.

A fleet of high-altitude balloons could be used to scatter the sulphur high overhead, or it could even be fired into the atmosphere using heavy artillery shells, said Professor Crutzen, a researcher at the Max Planck Institute for Chemistry in Germany.

The effect of scattering sulphate particles in the atmosphere would be to increase the reflectance, or "albedo", of the Earth, which should cause an overall cooling effect.

Such "geo-engineering" of the climate has been suggested before, but Professor Crutzen goes much further by drawing up a detailed model of how it can be done, the timescales involved, and the costs.

In his forthcoming scientific paper, Professor Crutzen emphasises that the best way of averting global climate disaster is for countries to cut back significantly on their emissions of greenhouse gases, notably carbon dioxide produced by burning oil, gas and coal. But in the absence of such measures, and with the average global temperature expected to rise more than 3C this century, there may soon come a time when more extreme measures have to be considered, he said.

"If sizeable reductions in greenhouse gas emissions will not happen and temperatures rise rapidly, then climatic engineering, as presented here, is the only option available to rapidly reduce temperature rises and counteract other climatic effects," Professor Crutzen said.

"Such a modification could also be stopped on short notice, if undesirable and unforeseen side-effects become apparent, which would allow the atmosphere to return to its prior state within a few years," he said.

Such an idea is so controversial that some scientists opposed its publication in the peer-reviewed scientific press, fearing that it may encourage the view that it is easier to treat the symptoms rather than the causes of climate change.

Professor Crutzen, however, argues that the "grossly disappointing" international political response to the necessity of cuts in greenhouse gas emissions means that it should no longer be considered taboo to think about geo-engineering of the climate.

"Importantly, its possibility should not be used to justify inadequate climate policies, but merely to create a possibility to combat potentially drastic climate heating," he said. "The very best would be if emissions of the greenhouse gases could be reduced. Currently, this looks like a pious wish."

His plan is modelled partly on the Mount Pinatubo volcanic eruption in 1991, when thousands of tons of sulphur were ejected into the atmosphere causing global temperatures to fall.

Pinatubo generated sulphate aerosols in the atmosphere which cooled the Earth by 0.5C on average in the following year. The sulphate particles did this by acting like tiny mirrors, preventing a portion of incoming sunlight from reaching the ground.

Professor Crutzen calculated that a relatively small amount of sulphur could cause similar cooling if it was released at high enough altitudes into the stratosphere, rather than at the lower altitude of the troposphere. Weather balloons or even artillery shells could be used to carry the sulphur.

"Although climate cooling by sulphate aerosols also occurs in the troposphere, the great advantage of placing reflective particles in the stratosphere is their long residence time of about one to two years, compared to a week in the troposphere," Professor Crutzen said.

"It may be possible to manufacture a special gas that is only processed photochemically in the stratosphere to yield sulphate," he said. Such a compound should be non-toxic, insoluble in water, non-reactive, and have a relatively short half-life of about 10 years.

It would cost between $25bn and $50bn - or about $25 or $50 per head in the developed world - to launch sufficient sulphate to last for up to two years.

But this high cost should be measured against the much bigger costs of environmental disasters, such as coastal flooding, caused by global warming, he said.

Side-effects could be an increase in the destruction of the ozone layer and whitening of the sky, although the particles would make sunsets and sunrises more spectacular, he said.

Other 'geo-engineering' ideas

* Reflecting mirrors:

Earth's natural reflectance or "albedo" reflects about 30 per cent of sunlight back into space. Increasing the albedo could be done by building giant unfolding mirrors in space, laying reflecting film in the deserts, or floating white plastic islands in the ocean to mimic reflective effect of sea ice.

* Swallowing up CO2:

Marine plankton absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, which the microbes need for photosynthesis. The growth of plankton is limited by the relatively small amounts of iron in the sea. Scientists have conducted experiments on boosting plankton by throwing iron filings into the sea.




http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article1205975.ece


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Edited by Silversoul (08/01/06 11:30 PM)


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: Silversoul]
    #5923778 - 08/01/06 11:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

yeah i read that, the concept of spreading massive amounts of sulphur into the air, is not a healthy proposal imho.

layingn reflective material in the deserts will cost billions if not trillions to just increase that reflectivity number more than 1%.....


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"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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OfflineTheDudeAbides
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: ZippoZ]
    #5923794 - 08/01/06 11:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zippoz said:
yeah i read that, the concept of spreading massive amounts of sulphur into the air, is not a healthy proposal imho.

layingn reflective material in the deserts will cost billions if not trillions to just increase that reflectivity number more than 1%.....




I was thinking almost the exact samet thing,
The idea sound ludicrous to me..


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: ZippoZ]
    #5924050 - 08/02/06 12:49 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zippoz said:
yeah i read that, the concept of spreading massive amounts of sulphur into the air, is not a healthy proposal imho.



I agree, but neither is spewing all these greenhouse gasses into the air. Sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: Silversoul]
    #5924106 - 08/02/06 01:02 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

yeah why don't we just STOP polluting...that would be a drastic measure too...and we won't have to risk fucking shit up more either.

we need to just stop pretending we know the answers to everything. WE DON"T

we do know were the stupidest beings in the universe...to know we are fucking a planet up...to know what were doing to cause it...and to not do a god dam thing to stop it...yeah were complete morons....


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #5924237 - 08/02/06 01:55 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think that this scientist's suggestion should be kept as a last resort. I think there's still time to cut back on emissions enough to slow down global warming. But if we keep wasting that time like we have for so long, it may be our only option.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: Silversoul]
    #5924280 - 08/02/06 02:35 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Mirrors in the desert?

It would be less silly to use those mirrors for collecting solar power.

I'm against pumping sulfur in the atmosphere, thats one of those last last resort things.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: Silversoul]
    #5924375 - 08/02/06 03:46 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yep... lets mess around with something that we don't understand in an attempt to fix something that we aren't sure is broken.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: Seuss]
    #5924937 - 08/02/06 10:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

If we started doing shit like this, maybe some of the colder countries like Russia, Iceland, or Canada would start pumping out ozone destroying aerosols or CO2. Or they could spread ash over the glaciers to absorb heat or something like that.

That would be a really crazy new kind of war.


-FF


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: Seuss]
    #5925323 - 08/02/06 12:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Yep... lets mess around with something that we don't understand in an attempt to fix something that we aren't sure is broken.



Hey, if global warming isn't real, as you seem to believe for some baffling reason, then we're safe and have nothing to worry about. This option would only be used as a last resort.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: fastfred]
    #5925339 - 08/02/06 12:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
If we started doing shit like this, maybe some of the colder countries like Russia, Iceland, or Canada would start pumping out ozone destroying aerosols or CO2. Or they could spread ash over the glaciers to absorb heat or something like that.

That would be a really crazy new kind of war.



Those countries you named have as much to loose from global warming as any other country. It's ridiculous to think they'd combat this just because they're cold.


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Offlinesupra
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: Silversoul]
    #5925551 - 08/02/06 02:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

well, the climate has been changing for billions of years. And there is evidence for both sides of the arguement, noone knows FOR SURE wether or not it is real, im not completely convinced myself.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: Silversoul]
    #5928002 - 08/03/06 08:09 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Hey, if global warming isn't real, as you seem to believe for some baffling reason, then we're safe and have nothing to worry about. This option would only be used as a last resort.




Climate change is real, but global warming is unprovable hype used by ecoterrorists and special interest groups to mislead the public into supporting their causes... in this case, environmentalism and anti-capitalism/globalization.

For those that cannot understand the difference, here is a quick example:

Climate change: The climate seems to be warming. It is difficult to know, at this time, the exact cause, or if this change is normal or abnormal. One hypothesis is that the change in climate is caused by the actions of humans. There is currently a lot of researching investigating this hypothesis, but we cannot yet reach any conclusions one way or another.

Global warming: The planet is getting hotter because of humans. Change your ways now or we are all going to die!!!


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: Seuss]
    #5928330 - 08/03/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Well, the thing about this solution being proposed is that it applies equally to global warming or "climate change"(i.e. the globe warming). Whether or not humans are causing it(I think there's substantial evidence to indicate that we are), the earth is getting hotter, and if it gets to a point where we can't sustain much of our population, then we may have to resort to this scientist's solution. Climate change doesn't have to be caused by humans in order to be cause for alarm.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Scientist publishes "escape route" from global warming [Re: Silversoul]
    #5928378 - 08/03/06 11:51 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

See, when you say "the earth is getting hotter", you're leaving out the 'compared to what' part of the equation and you're just making a blanket statement that seems to imply that this is a static trend that will not change. But of course, the only constant with the climate or anything else is change.

I agree, the earth has been getting hotter these past few months. But if i were to leap to the GLOBAL WARMING conclusion instead of considering other things like long-term cyclic fluctuations, atmospheric modulation, sun activity, the fact that it's summertime, that would be the act of a fool.

I'm not saying we should continue exactly as we have been for the past 50 years with reckless abandon. I am saying there is no way to conclude that the way humanity has been behaving is influencing climate change (though it probably has some effect) or that such climate change should be considered GLOBAL WARMING.

I think the sentiment about GLOBAL WARMING is actually thinly veiled self-contempt expressed by individuals and humanity collectively. What does GLOBAL WARMING mean anyway? Could you please define it for me? It would make this whole debate a bit more approachable.


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