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OfflineSeussA
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More global warming rhetoric
    #5443893 - 03/26/06 12:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I don't want to get into a debate about global warming. Rather, I want to show an example of why I constantly argue against makinds impact on global warming. It isn't that I don't agree with the hypothesis, but that people with a motive are unethically changing the science to meet their needs. Consider the following:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060324/sc_nm/environment_climate_dcp:

Quote:


U.N. sees link between global warming and hurricanes - Fri Mar 24, 2:42 PM ET

GENEVA (Reuters) - There is growing evidence of a link between global warming and natural disasters such as droughts and flooding, the head of the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) said on Friday.


But Michel Jarraud, secretary general of the United Nations weather agency, said more research was needed into the links between global warming and extreme conditions like hurricanes.

Jarraud told a news briefing: "We know for certain that there is an intensification of the hydrological cycle, which translates into greater risk in some areas of a rain deficit and accentuated problems of drought linked to climate change."

"In other regions there is a higher risk of flooding and in others a risk of greater frequency of heat waves," he said.

The WMO said last week that greenhouse gases including carbon dioxide -- blamed for global warming and climate change -- had reached their highest levels in the atmosphere.

Scientists warn that greenhouse gas emissions must be slowed and reduced if the earth is to avoid climatic havoc with devastating heat waves, droughts, floods and rising sea-levels sinking low-lying island states and hitting seaboard cities.

Carbon dioxide, which the WMO says accounts for 90 percent of warming over the past decade, is largely generated by human activity involving the burning of fossil fuels.

"We must accentuate research efforts to better understand the links between climate change and a certain number of extreme phenomena," Jarraud said.

He noted 2005 was a record year for hurricanes in the Atlantic Ocean, including Hurricane Katrina which devastated New Orleans.

"There is not yet a consensus in the scientific community on the link between hurricanes and global warming, but there are leads. I am fairly confident that in two or three years we will have more credible answers," Jarraud said.

Research into the link between climate change and El Nino could take five years, he added.

El Nino, caused by interaction between abnormally warm or cool seas and the atmosphere, typically triggers drought in eastern Australia and Southeast Asia, and floods in western parts of North and South America.




Notice the bold quotes in the article compared with the headline given by the article's authors. ... and yet the sheep follow blindly without question.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: Seuss]
    #5443955 - 03/26/06 12:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Welcome to the main stream media :smirk:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: Seuss]
    #5445320 - 03/26/06 09:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
It isn't that I don't agree with the hypothesis, but that people with a motive are unethically changing the science to meet their needs.




Yes, the Bush Administration has a long history of altering the scientific data to meet their needs. I know full well this isnt what you meant at all. But we have years of people at the EPA saying they were pressured by Bush Administration officials to change their data to discount global warming, and downplay the tremendous threat it is causing to civilization.

I'm a Geoscientist, and I can tell you the Earth is warming, this is NOT DEBATABLE. It is a FACT. We've had this argument before, I'm aware that you consider this a natural phenomena. I'm not saying this isnt true. The Earth has gone through many cycles of warming and cooling throughout the years. This has gone on for millenia without human intrusion.

Now, what impact will humans have on this natural cycle? That is unknown. Do you suggest we wait and see? Humans are releasing CO2, as well as other greenhouse gasses, into the atmosphere at a pace that is unprecedented in history and growing daily. We do not have time to dilly-dally.

I have great faith in the ability of the human race to overcome almost any obstacle in our path. Given enough resources, alternative energy sources could be within our grasp in a decade. But there needs to be a sense of urgency. You may downplay the threat, and say we need more research, more time. Your right. We DO need more research. We DO need more time. Unfortunately, one is not forthcoming, and the other we do not know how to create.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5446299 - 03/27/06 05:06 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

> I'm aware that you consider this a natural phenomena.

I find global warming equally likely to be natural as man made. I wont discount either possibility until there is good evidence one way or the other. I will go so far as to state that human pollution is certainly not helping the situation...

Lets pretend for a moment that undeniable proof came to light that global warming is happening, but is natural and has nothing at all to do with mankind. I know, big pretend, but humor me for a second. If this scenario were to play out, would you still feel that mankind should do something to try and thwart global warming?

The above illustrates my fear... that we are trying to fix something that isn't broken, or at least that isn't fully understood... and in doing so, we actually make the situation worse. Parasitic oscillation is very difficult to dampen out...

> Yes, the Bush Administration has a long history of altering the scientific data to meet their needs.

Actually, that is exactly what I mean. I don't care which side of the issue somebody falls on, leave the science alone... special interest politics and science do not mix.

This is the part of the whole global warming debate that really disgusts me. Left, right, up, down, it doesn't matter... leave them along and let the scientists do what scientists do... if politicians don't like what the scientists have to say, tough... fix the problem, don't alter the data or change the results... and do not try to pressure the scientists into releasing false claims that support a political, or special interest agenda. In this case, the environmentalists are just as disgusting as the politicians.

> I have great faith in the ability of the human race to overcome almost any obstacle in our path.

Again, I agree with you... however, in the case of global warming, assuming it is man-caused... I think human nature will force mother natures hand. In other words, I don't think all of the people on the planet can come together and do what is needed to end the emissions. We will die before we give up our right to pollute... sad, but true... and mother nature will be more than happy to do what needs to be done to balance out the system.

The "modern" world will not quit polluting because of profit margins. If, by some miracle, the "modern" world does quit polluting, it wont matter. The third world stills pollute, and wont stop. The "modern" world got to pollute for a hundred or so years, so they get to as well. The overall mentality seems to be "I can deal with the weather tomorrow, but I gotta be able to live today."

A final thought... I have no problem with, and actually support, efforts to end the emissions of "greenhouse gasses" and other pollution. As I stated earlier, even if these are not the cause of global warming, they are certainly not helping any. I just wish people would stop hijacking the science and using it to make false claims to scare the rest of us into action. Lead me with honest facts, not with bullshit politics lobbied by a special interest group.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: Seuss]
    #5448210 - 03/27/06 04:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

>> I'm aware that you consider this a natural phenomena.

>I find global warming equally likely to be natural as man made.

You're BOTH wrong!

Global warming is a direct result of cow farts. :whoa:

http://wolfman.rucus.net/Essays/Cow.html

It has been estimated that 9 to 12% of the energy that a cow consumes is turned to methane that is released either through flatulence or burping (Radford, 2001). A huge number of factors affect methane emission, including diet, barn conditions and whether the cow is lactating, but an average cow in a barn produce 542 liters of methane a day, and 600 liters when out in a field (Adam, 2000).

These estimates were made using a trace gas (sulphur hexofluoride) that was released at known points within a barn containing 90 cattle. Levels of this trace gas and CO2 are then measured 30 metres downwind of the shed and thus they can estimate how much CO2 is released per cow per day. All this methane can add up to a significant amount. Australia's 140 million sheep and cattle are estimated to produce one seventh of the nation's total greenhouse gas emissions, whilst America's 100 million cattle also are major contributors (Major, 2000).
  :tongue:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: Diploid]
    #5448635 - 03/27/06 07:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

So basically you're saying we gotta lay off the red meat. :smile:


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"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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Offlineiateshaggy
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #5449017 - 03/27/06 09:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i think he means that the eco-nazi's and the republican's are people arguing like females pretending to be arguing like men, but actually arguing like females. now to the naked eye that would sound redundant but keep in mind, i'm drunk on tequila.


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You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: Diploid]
    #5449953 - 03/28/06 04:11 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

> Global warming is a direct result of cow farts.

I have always wondered how much all those black asphault roads everwhere, all those black asphault parking lots, all the row after row of houses which dark shingles, etc, play into the warming of things. Cow farts and parking lots...


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Invisibletak
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: Seuss]
    #5452656 - 03/28/06 07:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

They definately play a big role in my non scientific third grade educated opinion.

I know when flying an airplane over a large parking lot or road, you will get big updrafts...there is definately heat coming off of them.

My last job outdoors was next to a very large airport, and the weather was very crazy there. Often times it would be pouring 360 degrees around the airport, but not directly over it. I think it is because of hte massive amounts of assphalt they have, but i guess I could be wrong.


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Invisibletak
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: tak]
    #5452666 - 03/28/06 07:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Not to mention all the heat generated from factories, homes, cars, asphalt, etc. I am sure there are cooling agents around, but I highly doubt that they compare to the head everythign else puts out. It may not be statistically significant, but the earth is changing....green house gases or not...but 500 years ago, cars did not exist, or any of this stuff. It has to have some impact.


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: tak]
    #5455641 - 03/29/06 03:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If you plant enough trees they will absorb all the CO2 produced by burning fossil fuels. People are too lazy to do this.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: tak]
    #5455783 - 03/29/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

root-ninja-tak said:I am sure there are cooling agents around, but I highly doubt that they compare to the head everythign else puts out.


whats a cooling agent?


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Invisibletak
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: DieCommie]
    #5456486 - 03/29/06 07:01 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Fuyck if i know


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Invisibletak
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: DieCommie]
    #5456489 - 03/29/06 07:01 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i made that shit up


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: tak]
    #5456643 - 03/29/06 07:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

root-ninja-tak said:
i made that shit up


lol  :thumbup: i applaud your honesty.  I dont think there is a such thing as a cooling agent, the only way to get an area cold is to move the heat away from the area, which creates more heat in the end.


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InvisibleColonel Kurtz Ph.D
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: Seuss]
    #5461119 - 03/30/06 06:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Global warming is a direct result of cow farts.

I have always wondered how much all those black asphalt roads everywhere... play into the warming of things.




Well, as you surely know the color of a surface has a direct relation with the temperatures it gets when exposed to the sun, this effect is called albedo and certainly plays a role in global temps, although it's an autorregulation cycle and thus does not increase global warming per se (Actually it probably helps against it).

Quote:

Urban areas in particular have very unnatural values for albedo because of the many human-built structures which absorb light before the light can reach the surface. In the northern part of the world, cities are relatively dark, and Walker has shown that their average albedo is about 7%, with only a slight increase during the summer. In most tropical countries, cities average around 12%. This is similar to the values found in northern suburban transitional zones. Part of the reason for this is the different natural environment of cities in tropical regions, e.g., there are more very dark trees around; another reason is that portions of the tropics are very poor, and city buildings must be built with different materials. Warmer regions may also choose lighter colored building materials so the structures will remain cooler.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albedo

All of that meaning that indeed all that asphalt increases the temps of the area. Unfortunately parking lots and highways do not auto-regulate as populations of black and white flowers do (typical example of albedo's regulations on temps), but the incidence on global temperatures is probably so low that it's not really a factor to take into account.

BTW, did you know that a certain way to increase albedo so much it stops global warming is shooting a few nuclear heads? :smirk:
Thank god nobody in their minds would do that... or would they? :grin:


--------------------
:whatwhat:

There's no better way to rock out than with your cock out!!


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: More global warming rhetoric [Re: Seuss]
    #9166477 - 10/31/08 11:33 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
A final thought... I have no problem with, and actually support, efforts to end the emissions of "greenhouse gasses" and other pollution.  As I stated earlier, even if these are not the cause of global warming, they are certainly not helping any.  I just wish people would stop hijacking the science and using it to make false claims to scare the rest of us into action.  Lead me with honest facts, not with bullshit politics lobbied by a special interest group.




I pretty much agree with this statement. I don't really know what is causing global warming, but there are so many political people making statements to the effect of the oceans are going to rise 100m in the next century... I see this a fear mongering plain and simple.

However I think we would be better off finding some other source of energy other than fossil fuels. Things like geothermal and hydro provide constant energy return, and solar and wind can provide seasonal energy. Tidal energy as well seems like a cool new technology...

And of course you have nuclear as well.

I mean if we could adjust our energy needs away from fossil fuels we could ignore the middle east like they should be.

In other words I totally agree on reducing CO2 emissions, but it pisses me off that the media is dominated by doomsday global warming sensationalists.


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