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North Spore Shop: Injection Grain Bag

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: MushMushi]
    #1253663 -

Soothes your conscience does it? Brings them a lot of comfort I bet.

Money doesn't buy redemption and I need none. Money does make a difference however. Why am I not surprised you feel the need to help prisoners who in all likely hood, are scumbags who deserve to be where they are?

Nearly kill a baby, so what. She can have more and next time who knows where she'll leave it.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: MushMushi]
    #1253667 -


I write letters to prisoners, all over the world. I encourage them and I care for them.
Life is not fair for them.

Punishment for a crime is fair.

What is not fair is the circumstances of the victims of these prisoners.

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1253703 -

Tell that to people caught with drugs.
Tell that to people that steal because they need to feed their families.
Tell that to people that defend animal rights.
Tell that to revolutionaries!


In case you didn't noticed, they are still humans despite what they have done.
Rehabilitation is the way to go!
Don't punish them like dogs. :smirk: 

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: MushMushi]
    #1253706 -

*snort* ^^^^


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1253767 -

To those of you who think the woman is a monster who needs to be punished: would it change your minds if she were schizophrenic, or otherwise incapable of caring for herself, let alone for a baby? It's also possible that she not only didn't choose to have a baby, but that she didn't choose to have sex, period. I.e., with the info we have, all we can do is speculate.

Did she deliver the child in a clinic, where someone should have spotted a problem case, or did she have it in an alley? Maybe CBC could do a follow-up article on the woman. I suspect that she is mentally unfit, and putting the baby where she did, as off the mark as it was, was an attempt to find help for it. But like I said, we don't have all the info.

Mental illness is a big cause of homelessness, so let's assume for a moment that that is a factor here. What would the point be of prosecution? If it led to sound psychiatric care, then I think it would be good. But if it led to prison time, what would be the point? Would it deter other mentally ill homeless woman from having babies?


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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: hongomon]
    #1253769 -

Quote:
To those of you who think the woman is a monster who needs to be punished: would it change your minds if she were schizophrenic, or otherwise incapable of caring for herself, let alone for a baby?


No.


Quote:
Would it deter other mentally ill homeless woman from having babies?


Possibly, but giving her money or a home doesn't seem like it would help.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (01/27/03 03:56 PM)

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1253782 -

Quote:
Quote:
To those of you who think the woman is a monster who needs to be punished: would it change your minds if she were schizophrenic, or otherwise incapable of caring for herself, let alone for a baby?



Luv:
No.

I guess MushiMushi was right. Carry on then.

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: hongomon]
    #1253785 -

Gosh, I'm so relieved I have your permission to have a different opinion than you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: hongomon]
    #1253805 -

Actually I just caught myself being a hypocrite. For the same reason I don't think we should judge this homeless woman, I probably shouldn't be judging anyone else!

My apologies.

NOW carry on.

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: hongomon]
    #1253810 -

Accepted.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1253815 -

Luv, you make a lot of defensive posts about right to opinion. You have a right to an opinion, just as anyone else. You also have a right to an opinion about another's opinion, just as anyone else. And so on and so forth. How can that right possibly be infringed upon by other posters sharing THEIR opinions on an internet forum?

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: hongomon]
    #1253818 -

Quote:
It's also possible that she not only didn't choose to have a baby, but that she didn't choose to have sex, period

But she choose to leave the baby naked, in the cold, on a friday night, in front of City hall, and that is sick. If this woman is mentally ill, well then she needs to be sterilized, and given mental help. If not, she deserves to be banished to the wilderness and forced to fend for herself.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

Edited by Skikid16 (01/27/03 04:15 PM)

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: hongomon]
    #1253822 -

Want to try that again please?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: Skikid16]
    #1253932 -

Skikid:
But she choose to leave the baby naked, in the cold, on a friday night, in front of City hall, and that is sick.

Exactly. Very sick. Probably not hateful, quite possibly not even selfish. An irrational act, a sign of mental sickness. That's all I was trying to suggest, and that's what Carbonhoots was driving at as well.

Skikid:
If this woman is mentally ill, well then she needs to be sterilized, and given mental help.

I agree, and I agree.

Skikid:
If not, she deserves to be banished to the wilderness and forced to fend for herself.

Fair enough. But in a way, that has already happened to her.

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1253935 -

Try what again?

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: hongomon]
    #1253981 -

So we agree.  If it is mental illness, get her treatment, if not, fry the bitch. :wink:
Quote:
But in a way, that has already happened to her. 

It has happened to her in a way, but most likely, as is in most cases of homelessness, it was either her fault or she is mentally ill.  On the other hand, it was not her daughter's fault, she did not fuck up and end up on the streets, she was abandoned. 


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: MushMushi]
    #1254002 -


Tell that to people caught with drugs.

There is a difference between smoking a joint and killing a baby.

Tell that to people that steal because they need to feed their families.

Tell them to get a job.

Tell that to people that defend animal rights.

Mmmmm.... I am eating some ham right now. Yum Yum.

Tell that to revolutionaries

Whatever you say..

Rehabilitation is warranted in some cases, but punishment is a necessary
deterrent to improper behavior.

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: hongomon]
    #1254016 -


To those of you who think the woman is a monster who needs to be punished: would it change your minds if she were schizophrenic, or otherwise incapable of caring for herself, let alone for a baby? It's also possible that she not only didn't choose to have a baby, but that she didn't choose to have sex, period. I.e., with the info we have, all we can do is speculate.

Ok. We do not know all of the facts. A court of law that is populated by an
unbiased jury will decide what will happen. I admit that my immediate reaction
was revulsion, and this probably clouded my judgement. However, if she is found
to be competent, then I think she should be punished.


Edited by RandalFlagg (01/27/03 05:29 PM)

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1254162 -

What this woman did is totally wrong and indefensible. There has to be a limit to the excuses you're willing to make for someone, no matter how poor or desperate they may be. The woman belongs in prison.

That said, however, the self-righteous condemnation that the right wingers or libertarians or whatever they want to call themselves are displaying on this thread is a fucking joke, hypocricy at its height. If you would take away the state's capacity to protect and care for the helpless and the abandoned, if you would leave all those who can't find aid from private charities or individuals to die because the state shouldn't be allowed to drop one red cent on anything other than policemen or soliders, then you're consigning many innocent and defenseless children to die just as readily as that woman did.

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Re: A criminal? I don't think so... [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1254176 -

Quote:
if you would leave all those who can't find aid from private charities or individuals to die because the state shouldn't be allowed to drop one red cent on anything other than policemen or soliders, then you're consigning many innocent and defenseless children to die just as readily as that woman did.

But the state didn't get pregnant and have those who can't find aid from private charities.


BTW, I'm not a right winger, in fact, I mostly vote democrat, but sheesh, the woman left her child out in the cold, she deserves to be punished, and severely at that. (granted that she isn't mentally ill)


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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North Spore Shop: Injection Grain Bag

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