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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for [Re: bardleyrichard]
    #12454749 -

YTHAN

if you read one post read this one. I am about to go on a rant that you should be already covered on if you've read a book called "Here Comes Everybody" by Clay Shirky. I don't know much about the author but I picked this book up on the cheap from a discount bin and found it massively informative. I have also seen you post a few comments that suggest that you would benefit quite a bit from reading this book if you have not already. I dono if you could find it on the torrents or amazon or something but I'm just seriously recommending it to you.

{Rant!}
OK, primarily on the issue of Wikipedia. It is not a source of misinformation. It takes about an hour(approx 3 bad entries) to do some malisous editing on Wikipedia(or even other more obscure wikis) and when someone finds that you've done it they can not only undo what you did but also look at your other entries and undo them if you are a problem and it takes a few mins max. Deleting the bad entries from the site altogether would fall to the duty of admins, but anyone could hypothetically get it off of the visible portion of an unlocked topic in seconds. So bad info on Wikipedia is actually a myth relatively, I doubt anyone who has ever complained about it has really ever seen some bad info on it. Further, if they are some of the few that have, odds are all they had to do was try to correct it (unless it is them who is misinformed). Check the book out, it has examples.

Wikipedia entries are simple, someone with a little information starts it. Then others contribute, and soon enough you have a full entry with loads of details and even citations. People who know some things and write a outline can say things incorrectly or inarticulately, others can edit this and create a formal product that is better or even optimal.

Abusive users of Wikipedia are banned (usually IPs as well) from contributing. This prevents all but the most computer(proxy) savvy of trolls from doing their work.

Wikipedia was started as a wiki to allow people to help with the establishment of a free encyclopedia. There was a bottleneck of the contributions and approval from the editors of the encyclopedia and the actual free encyclopedia never was able to make itself. We all now know about Wikipedia, some other free encyclopedia... well I read it just a month or two ago and I can't for the life of me remember what it was called.
{/rant!}

Do at least read the chapter in this book about Wikipedia before refusing the idea. It would clarify a lot of the misinformation about Wikipedia and wikis in a way that is clearly understood by the relative lay-man. It is sorely needed in the shroomery community. I will help in my spare time.

The shroomery needs a wiki to replace the main-site info. The info is out of date and is not edited and cannot be changed by users. If you want noobs to have good info some time needs to be spent helping convert the info over to a wiki format where it can be simply broke down and bad info can be weeded out and alternative methods as with their pros/cons can be broken down clearly.

The main problem on the shroomery is misinformation and inability to quickly access necessary information to answer noob questions. A wiki would solve most of these problems.

I answer noob questions from time to time, but when it come to main threads or main teks even I loose track and have to spend some time finding them to help. A wiki would make this faster and better. Hell imagine if there mostly stupid questions left because anyone smart enough to look around could find the information easily without difficulty and when someone did ask a question I could find an answer quickly or easily in words of my own or better using the myco-wiki. That'd be fucking awesome and it would nuke the fuck out of the need for a noob forum or some such shit, which I find stupid since it only encourages people who don't know shit to join the shroomery. I've found a few users who have little posts but actually are fucking intelligent who must've joined after being knowledgeable at a friend's advice or whatnot.


***
Now as for a curriculum of material that could be prepared for noobs to read to get into MC. I think this could be a good component for a wiki and wiki-development.

If I had to throw together a shorthand list of what I think is needed in order. It would go something like this:

1) RR/RK's PF tek video
+ an appendix on steam/pc sterilizing (or link to wiki entry)
+ an appendix on grains for PF and sterilizing (or link to wiki entry)
+ an appendix on sterile lab procedures and methods (wiki)

2) RR's Grain tek videos
+ a multi-link to various grain entries /w strain specifics (wiki)

3) An in depth breakdown of substrates (wiki)

4) Fruiting Chambers tutorials explanations and links (wiki)

5) Strains, fruiting conditions and whatnot (wiki)

6) Contaminants (wiki)
^ could bump this up to two but it is only necessary as it happens.

I think a curriculum is obviously and inevitably as you look at it this way in need of a wiki and should simply be a sister component to it.

Edited by ScavengerType (04/25/10 06:23 PM)

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for "Shroomery 101"? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #12454792 -

I would be fine with a system like that
if editing priveleges are only given
to members with a trusted cultivator tag


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for "Shroomery 101"? [Re: niteowl]
    #12454810 -

That would create a bottleneck that would not be required.

Wikipedia uses the lock function to prevent non-admins from editing an entry, often leaving a specific entry or so in the charge of one or a few admins to sort out. Until an article is reported to be being abused it is left to the public. This is how it should work IMO, and it is the best of the wiki systems. Ythan obviously wants to see a more open-source and optimal approach happen and I think that imitating a success story like Wikipedia would be a good beginning.

Edit: I should add that I am pretty sure that locked Wikipedia pages can still accept suggestions but that the admin of that entry is in charge of entering it into the page.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (04/25/10 07:06 PM)

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for "Shroomery 101"? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #12455231 -

I haven't read the 8 pages of this thread, but I thought this might be an idea worth considering which has worked on other forums I've seen.
A certain period where you can't post. It really helps people to read and learn before crowding everyone else with questions which are answered a lot.

Because some come here for ID's though, it'd be best to leave it so new members can post there (Mushroom hunting and ID) straight away to prevent people from eating unidentified mushrooms.


--------------------
[

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for "Shroomery 101"? [Re: chooken]
    #12455511 -

must people lurk before neways

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for "Shroomery 101"? [Re: hidenseek]
    #12455551 -

hidenseek said:
must people lurk before neways



--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for "Shroomery 101"? [Re: deCypher]
    #12456554 -

Yup i lurked for a long long time be4 i joined... stampede and r berg are right.... BUT!!! For the most part if u do at least a lil research and use a lil common sense one can distinguish the people (RR, ROADKILL, HIPPIECHICK, ext.)that know what they are doing just by there advise what they say and how they act.... And u should really never ever only take one persons advise get a few different teks or opinions then u should be able to weed out the bull sh*ters and the peeps that know there stuff...:wink: BUT!!!!  BIG BUTT!!!!! It would be a good idea to have a simpler system.... But we all know odds are there will be no action of it will take time..... So Brothers and Sisters buck up and research untill then.:tongue:


--------------------
Love, Light & Happy Trails

THUMB PRINT'S TRADE LIST

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for "Shroomery 101"? [Re: deCypher]
    #12456579 -

I agree with everything scavenger type says.  Whether it actually happens here or not, it should happen in some way-shape-or-form.

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for "Shroomery 101"? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #12456869 -

ScavengerType said:
That would create a bottleneck that would not be required.

Wikipedia uses the lock function to prevent non-admins from editing an entry, often leaving a specific entry or so in the charge of one or a few admins to sort out. Until an article is reported to be being abused it is left to the public. This is how it should work IMO, and it is the best of the wiki systems. Ythan obviously wants to see a more open-source and optimal approach happen and I think that imitating a success story like Wikipedia would be a good beginning.

Edit: I should add that I am pretty sure that locked Wikipedia pages can still accept suggestions but that the admin of that entry is in charge of entering it into the page.


:dudewtf:

What is the difference in allowing trusted cultivators (or mods) to edit the pages and allowing admins?

:confused:

the admins have more to do than edit info pages
Im sure that some of the trusted cultivators
would not mind setting up such a page
and help in keep the information up to date

You could even make such a page and give control of it to a few of the trusted cultivators :shrug:

Im all for having a beginners page to growing shrooms
but am not comfortable with anyone being able to edit the info


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for "Shroomery 101"? [Re: niteowl]
    #12456918 -

niteowl said:
ScavengerType said:
That would create a bottleneck that would not be required.

Wikipedia uses the lock function to prevent non-admins from editing an entry, often leaving a specific entry or so in the charge of one or a few admins to sort out. Until an article is reported to be being abused it is left to the public. This is how it should work IMO, and it is the best of the wiki systems. Ythan obviously wants to see a more open-source and optimal approach happen and I think that imitating a success story like Wikipedia would be a good beginning.

Edit: I should add that I am pretty sure that locked Wikipedia pages can still accept suggestions but that the admin of that entry is in charge of entering it into the page.


:dudewtf:

What is the difference in allowing trusted cultivators (or mods) to edit the pages and allowing admins?

:confused:

the admins have more to do than edit info pages
Im sure that some of the trusted cultivators
would not mind setting up such a page
and help in keep the information up to date

You could even make such a page and give control of it to a few of the trusted cultivators :shrug:

Im all for having a beginners page to growing shrooms
but am not comfortable with anyone being able to edit the info



I think you guys are trying to say the same thing.  When a page is first added, it should be able to be edited I think, perhaps for a period of a month or a year, or perhaps when enough people vote for it to be locked.  Maybe have locking polls attached to them, and decide on a poll closing date for that particular page.  What about something like that?

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for "Shroomery 101"? [Re: niteowl]
    #12456981 -

niteowl said:
Im all for having a beginners page to growing shrooms
but am not comfortable with anyone being able to edit the info



--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for "Shroomery 101"? [Re: deCypher]
    #12457922 -

Well for the Wikipedia like idea, you can allow any user to start a NEW page and have new pages have some warning or different font color, something that lets people know that someone wants a page created about it, and put a little bit to get it started which may or may not be accurate. Maybe put time restriction, like people can not edit pages that are already on there until after X amount of posts and days, like for the marketplace, and so on. Regardless, I don't see how it could do any harm, to at least give it a shot and see what happens. I am willing to help start new pages.

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for "Shroomery 101"? [Re: Ythan] * 1
    #12458144 -

I'd also like to see a shroomery  meme//culture thread, such as our tendency to like bacon, tacos, and excessive use of awesome graemlin


--------------------

"I'm looking at you looking at it"

SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion



Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for "Shroomery 101"? [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #12458153 -

Apollyphelion said:
I'd also like to see a shroomery  meme//culture thread, such as our tendency to like bacon, tacos, and excessive use of awesome graemlin



--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for [Re: veggie]
    #12458431 -

veggie said:
>It really, really sucks when someone asks a question and some random user tells them the wrong answer as if it were right. I see this happening all the time, every damn time I search the forum for useful information.<

I have no doubt that happens frequently, but could you give a few examples, a link or two perhaps.

>Could we do a wiki?<

Personally I don't see how a wiki would prevent the 'spread of misinformation'. A good example of that would be Wikipedia.org.


Just as in real life you wouldn't take the statement of some random person as absolute fact. You do have to "consider the source". Here at The Shroomery you can filter the information, as you obviously have done, by the poster, their ratings, Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, their growlogs, etc.

It would be helpful to identify the commonly asked questions by new users so we can point them in the right direction until they have overcome the short learning curve of searching for themselves.



Centralizing information, like in a wiki, will naturally fight the spread of misinformation by putting emphasis on group knowledge. We could work collectively to put only the right info on.

I'll find a link or two for you, but I don't know of any good examples offhand.

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for [Re: ScavengerType] * 1
    #12459764 -

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I am reading everything and making notes. There's just one misconception I'd like to clear up before people spend any more time debating it: this site already has full wiki functionality! You don't need to convince us, we already embraced the idea and introduced it almost four years ago. But I have gradually been revoking edit privileges on the various sections since 99% of edits are just tagging and vandalism, moving documents to random locations, and that sort of thing. We need a better interface or moderation options or something because it really did not work out well on the first attempt. But we did attempt it.

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for [Re: Ythan]
    #12459832 -

Could you restrict the edit privileges to certain people.....like trusted cultivators


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for [Re: Ythan]
    #12459838 -

Perhaps only give members with trusted tags ability to add/edit. If that isn't already the case.

Edit. o snap, old man with quick fingers.


--------------------
Whoop whoop.
Pull over that ass. Too fat.

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for [Re: Ythan]
    #12459857 -

That's good to hear that you've attempted it, it looks like it was really interesting when it existed.  I think this should be re-implemented for only certain people.  Perhaps you can develop a training that you have to go through, or a title that you must earn in order to edit things.  Such as the trusted cultivator title, except less prestigious.  For example someone should be able to ask to have their posts reviewed by a moderator or trusted cultivator and if they decide that their posts demonstrate a general knowledge and understanding of things and they feel that they can be trusted to make good organizational decisions, they can have that right granted.

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Re: What curriculum would you recommend for [Re: libertaire]
    #12460146 -

Also, I think the trusted cultivator system in general should be more open.  For example, why is someone who can do something like this:




not a trusted cultivator?  (That was from tektonic from this thread.)

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