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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: Tony]
    #12412988 -

:facepalm3:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: deCypher]
    #12413026 -

That's life for ya :lol:

You're supposed to let go. And sometimes on shrooms etc you get close to that point, which can be a fucking awesome bliss-out. But then there's always the chance that the ego can't handle it afterwards, when it comes back, and it always seems to come back with vengeance, like the first day after a long depraved holiday.

"Bliss? Eternity? Where?! I must have been psychotic!" :rolleyes:

That's spirituality. Just being confused until by some grace the ego lets go fully, hopefully before going insane.

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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: Tony]
    #12413027 -

Be forewarned: if you enter the Chapel Perilous that is your soul, you may only exit insane, enlightened or dead.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: Tony]
    #12413032 -

Tony said:
You're supposed to let go. And sometimes on shrooms etc you get close to that point, which can be a fucking awesome bliss-out. But then there's always the chance that the ego can't handle it afterwards, when it comes back, and it always seems to come back with vengeance, like the first day after a long depraved holiday.




Thats why i sometimes say practice can't bring about freedom, because anything you Do to remove the mind, is of the mind, it comes back with full force
The true way is the effortless effort, seeing through the mind rather than supressing it
Just being aware of who you are


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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: Chronic7]
    #12413033 -

Isn't seeing doing?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: deCypher]
    #12413042 -

What sees that?
Is that seeing 'doing' anything?


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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: Chronic7]
    #12413045 -

Well seeing is a verb which implies action/doing, no?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: deCypher]
    #12413053 -

If your looking in a dictionary or something, probably
All i know is i can't 'do' awareness
It doesn't require effort to maintain


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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: Chronic7]
    #12413059 -

Chronic777 said:
If your looking in a dictionary or something, probably


:ilold:

Just trying to make your words more precise and intelligible, man.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #12413063 -

It seems like it is some kind of an action because there is being aware and then there is not being at least directly aware.

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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: Tony]
    #12413072 -

If it is an action, what sees this action?


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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: Chronic7]
    #12413076 -

Does an action need to be seen in order to be performed?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: deCypher]
    #12413079 -

Not in my experience
Im pretty sure stevie wonder could have sex, eat food, play piano...


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Re: What does "spirituality" mean? [Re: Chronic7]
    #12413080 -

:thumbup:



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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: What does [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #12418715 -

If awareness is fundamentally unchanging, then all transformation must occur in the changing mind. You're saying that we ought to be aware of who we are. But if awareness is unchanging, then that awareness of who we are must already exists.

So, the only change that takes place is that somehow the changing mind must itself become a conductor or a reflection of this already existant unchanging awareness. This to me seems like a call for some kind of practice: the mind must become crystallized so that the emptiness can shine through.

But since the mind can not by itself grasp or converse with emptiness (that would be like a second-person relationship to an external god) it must rely on some kind of practise, or doing, that is empirically found to bring about this self realization. Of course there's no separate entity really doing anything, but that's not the experience from the relative point of view. The relative point of view is that you must do something to make it happen, otherwise you can't be destined for it.

Any obvious fallacies here? :stoned:

Edited by Tony (04/19/10 02:48 AM)

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Re: What does [Re: Tony] * 1
    #12420154 -

Really great post man

From the human perspective when we are under the illusion we do things you could say we have to do something to recognize/get the mind to reflect this pure awareness. However, what allows the mind to fully embody/reflect truth is not of the mind, but the truth itself pulling the mind inwards.

Its like stars on the periphery of a galaxy feeling they choose to move  around in the galaxy, but its the centre that is making everything turn.
At first it feels 'you' are choosing to seek enlightement, choosing to read this, choosing to practice that... but who is doing it? To get to where?
Your only ever here.

So the only thing that needs to be done is to find/see through the one who 'does' things in the first place.
Theres times waking up where life makes you surrender, makes you realize you as an entity can NOT 'do' this, you have to die into this.
And non action (wu-wei) is the death of the ego, the idea of doership.


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Re: What does [Re: Chronic7]
    #12420187 -

The ego cannot die.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: What does [Re: deCypher]
    #12420199 -

If the ego has no identity, what is it?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: What does [Re: Kickle]
    #12420206 -

I thought the ego was by definition identity.  :wtf:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: What does [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #12420221 -

It is -- so if you stop identifying, what happens?
Nothing changes, the ego just has nothing to grab hold of.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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