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General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps...
    #20242928 -

Then how does one break and form new habits? How will the addict break his addiction, or a coward learn to speak his mind without fear?

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: jimboob]
    #20243004 -

who said that to you?

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: doubtingmind]
    #20243014 -

His counselor

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: jimboob]
    #20243098 -

jimboob said:
Then how does one break and form new habits? How will the addict break his addiction, or a coward learn to speak his mind without fear?


Well it's possible all those changes were always there latently and patiently waiting for the right hormonal/chemical broth to go from a simmer to a boil.

That's why they say "once an addict always an addict".  Most fall off the wagon. I speak from experience here. I'm an addict and I can quit under the right circumstances but let that slip a little and I'm right back to where I started no matter how many months or years have gone by.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: Icelander]
    #20243201 -

You can't break habits, not without the hope and support of someone close.

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: Icelander]
    #20243247 -

Icelander said:
I'm an addict and I can quit under the right circumstances but let that slip a little and I'm right back to where I started no matter how many months or years have gone by.


Excellent self-honesty.  It occurs to me that it is rare for an addict to be able to admit this to himself.  But then you're a rare breed, Ice.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: jimboob]
    #20243404 -

I think environment plays the biggest factor in changing oneself.
I think reflection is important too but we are conditioned to respond to the stimulants that are intertwined with our being.

Change your environment, change your being.

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: Helnak] * 1
    #20243411 -

Helnak said:
You can't break habits, not without the hope and support of someone close.


Of course you can.

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: cez]
    #20243447 -

Once you admit that there is nothing you can do to change anything and you become friends with the habits, they have a tendency to break on their own. But at that point you wouldnt care if they broke or not anyways.

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #20243750 -

DividedQuantum said:
Icelander said:
I'm an addict and I can quit under the right circumstances but let that slip a little and I'm right back to where I started no matter how many months or years have gone by.


Excellent self-honesty.  It occurs to me that it is rare for an addict to be able to admit this to himself.  But then you're a rare breed, Ice.



Hey that's nice to hear.  I appreciate that. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: Icelander]
    #20251499 -

I'm so fucking bored with the effects of this drug that I can't be bothered taking it any more. Flip. I'm so fucking bored with not taking this drug that I'll use it as often as possible until I lose the motivation to use it again. Flip.

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #20252350 -

Quote:
Then how does one break and form new habits? How will the addict break his addiction, or a coward learn to speak his mind without fear?


Each person finds their own way, in their own time. 

Nothing is permanent, and personally found looking within to be fruitful.


--------------------
Oh, God! The stupid! It burns!-Abraham Lincoln

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: jimboob]
    #20252579 -

jimboob said:
Then how does one break and form new habits? How will the addict break his addiction, or a coward learn to speak his mind without fear?


You can advance ahead of the circuits or loops or behaviors by always being in a meditative state observing the phenom of stimulus inside and out.  Then you can catch automated responses probably due to social conditioning and 'catch' them or redirect them by acting in a conscious way that doesn't allow you to repeat the same patterns.  Its in the moment where the conclusions come together and the decisions get made.  Its like being hyper aware and half insane all the time because what the mind does is a spectacle for what you more likely 'are' and we get wired by culture to be certain ways and desire certain things.

But there is the idea of will power and using the will and applying the will in the attempts at manifestation are magick.

I don't know about bootstraps but practice makes perfect is what they say.

I was completely insane and I've managed to pull myself out of psychosis.

I know people are powerful when they quit giving into their destructive desires.:thumbup:

Peace and Love.

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: jimboob]
    #20253050 -

jimboob said:
Then how does one break and form new habits?


Why would any habit get formed? you must feel like you derive enjoyment out of something, and then repeat it over?

Quote:
How will the addict break his addiction


When you don't want it anymore, when you don't appear to derive enjoyment out of it anymore


We usually don't want something anymore when we get bored of it, hurt, or find something better, our minds jump from one thing to the next looking for the good stuff, but if you start to see that a habit isn't bringing you much of that good stuff, and you keep really looking at that fact, this can obviously break habits as you're seeing the fundamental 'i derive joy from this thing' belief and openly questioning it, and in that inquiry it can be dropped

If you sense the habit does not serve you anymore, and you just keep acknowledging that fact, just seeing that happiness doesn't ultimately come from repeating this thing, simply acknowledge it and an understanding of that fact automatically deepens

The same is true for forming good habits, if you acknowledge that certain things are good for you, and then there is real understanding, then those habits will automatically begin to form

Some habits like identification are the habit of a lifetime, or maybe even lifetimes, but funnily enough they're the simplest to break, they're the only ones where you succeed by 'doing' absolutely nothing, breaking the habit of identification, doership, shaking the foundation of that house that they shall not build again

Quote:
or a coward learn to speak his mind without fear?


Know that no words are ever true, so its ok to get it wrong


--------------------

Edited by Chronic7 (07/11/14 02:21 AM)

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: Chronic7]
    #20268822 -

It's practically a miracle, the amount of power and freedom a living human has. And it's a tragedy how much of that most give up  because of an inability to discipline themselves. It's the single greatest limiting factor, I think.

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: Sarcophyton]
    #20280607 -

I guess I was confused by Alan Watts' idea that "you can't do anything about your problems, but you also can't NOT do anything."

I've since come to realize that the faculty of willpower IS real (whether is is actually free will or not..), and can be used in small bursts for a limited amount of time to break/make habits over time.

I was confused by this because I am having a lot of trouble breaking my pot addiction (weak I know) and getting into boxing (because of fear, not of getting hurt of making a cool of myself...) among other things...I now know I have to take things one step at a time since my daily supply of willpower is limited. I am starting with my pot habit, because that is the number one thing fucking me up right now

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Re: So they say you can't change yourself, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps... [Re: jimboob]
    #20283323 -

By calling on your gods, demons, spells and archetypes OP.

Sure in a way it's just placebo, but good placebo works quite well. A tired warrior alone might not find the strength in himself to raise the axe one last time before collapsing. Alone, his fear may overcome him and he'll flee rather than attack. However, with his mental landscape populated by Odin and Loki and Thor, and the promise of Valhalla, a myriad of things now become possible. Same with all the crosses, stars and amulets worn by believers of all kinds throughout the times.

BECAUSE we're rather weak at doing discipline (overcoming habits and instinct through sheer willpower) people have started using effective symbols, as powerful triggers and reminders. Tell a guy to do or not do something, he'll go :shrug: Build a huge cathedral with amazing stained glass, have bells, sermons, large processions, all manner of showmanship and colors and trickery, and you'll see a whole society shift behaviors.

Get in touch with your archetypes. Use your chosen symbols, heroes, story lines and myths. From Batman and Darth Vader to Odin and Orion and Mars, if you find a few symbols that actually move you emotionally, deeply, that's where it's at.









Atheists IMO incorrectly assume that because the myths are not factually true, then it's better to not have any power rituals nor symbols at all, nor "special" space for contemplation/congregation, nor crosses nor amulets nor japa mala, for repeating things that need repetition in order to sink in. This is a failure to notice that we do need myths that are rich, rituals that are pleasant and empowering, artful reminders of our ideas, not just text in books.

Find your symbols, develop your rituals and you'll see you have much more power than initially assumed. Whatever habit or virtue you want to instill, see what deities or archetypes govern it, see what symbols relate to it and surround yourself with those symbols. Perform the rituals. Enrich your environment with that concept and you should gain much more control.

Key here is taking the time to do it right. Don't just say it, take time and money and effort and if something is important, inscribe it by hand, with carefully considered colors, on your wall. Write about it. Read about it. Find or form some sort of affirmation about it and say it to people or to yourself every day on such and such occasion. I think there's a fundamental difference between a generic object and one you've imbued with meaning and myth. There's a difference between some sword, any sword, and Excalibur. Between a car or a Ford and THE Batmobile. Between some 747 and Air Force One. Not all objects in your life should have names, but the most meaningful ones that define you, those should.

I was watching a documentary about CG Jung when someone mentioned this. That blacksmiths of old had names for their hammer, and knights for their sword. Names are important, as they define identity. Probably why monks get a new name when joining up. Helps focus things in a fresh new way.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16

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