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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: Ego Death]
    #9585204 - 01/10/09 08:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Those triangle craft are being used by the military. My friend saw them in Afghanistan.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: Ego Death]
    #9585380 - 01/10/09 09:29 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The greys have a very interesting story.

Their planet was much like ours currently, except they were much more advanced technologically.
They were experimenting heavily with DNA manipulation, and cloning.. and they heavily altered their genetics.
They also completely destroyed their planet's atmosphere, and almost all the vegetation, through war, making the surface of the planet inhospitable to life. 
Leading the survivors to live under the planets surface for a very long time, where they relied on their knowledge of science to survive, and further altered their genetics.
Up until their "awakening" process, and emergence as Galactic Citizens.
But their planet was dying. Their race was slowly dying off, due to unforeseen errors the many thousands of years of cloning and genetic manipulation had caused.

So they entered in a "hybrid program" with us, the people of Earth, in order to sustain their race and help our situation. 
As our race was the closest to theirs in terms of development, and humans of Earth had many of the traits they were missing that they needed.
The greys are probably the most active on our planet out of any of the races.. they do most of the  "field work" of the bunch. Which is why they are probably the most commonly ones reported.
Also, due to their purpose of making hybrids which requires donations of genetic material, which is where a lot of the reports come from.

As for them not following the rules, well that is debatable. There are "rebels" or 'negative' beings amongst almost every race, and the greys are no exception.. but they are vastly in the minority and they are still upheld by the rules of non-interference.
All contactees have in one way or another, requested and consented to that contact, usually on the subconscious level.
A problem arises in people whose consciousness is fragmented, where the subconscious can think one thing, and the conscious (ego) thinks another.
The subconscious mind says yes, and the ego says NO!. Well, the subconscious wins everytime, because these beings only communicate on that level, the ego is not even a consideration, and the soul knows best.

Abductions are not even so much abductions as they are, people agreeing to be contacted.. and then denying it on the conscious level, because they cannot wrap their ego around it. So they formulate it in their conscious mind, is that they were abducted.. when in reality, they consented to it the whole time.

This is true even for the "negative", self-serving ETs, of which comprise the vast minority.
No one is contacted without consent. And at any time, you say "NO", they must comply, and leave your presence.
This all occurs on the subconscious level, of course.

The ones who do not follow the protocols of non-interference, feel the results of their actions, and are taken out of a position to act on that level. It is not taken lightly. It was the "negative" greys, who had all that history with the US government, and other governments.. feeding them lies and giving them false technology.

The only ones doing "abductions" are humans in positions of power, people who feed off of fear.

So in short, "abductions" is a term thrown around far too much, and is misguided a lot of the time. I think sums it up fairly well:

Quote:

The term abduction was assigned to our visitations with our contactees early in the present day heated discussions about the alien presence. Prior to the latter half of this century, visits from aliens were termed a glimpsed fairy, an invoked demon, a guardian angel, or perhaps one of God's chariots in the sky. Humans tended to ascribe, correctly, their role in calling for the contact. They were brooding alone in the woods, were openly wishing to sell their soul for assistance in ridding themselves of a rival, were feeling frightened or confused and wondering if they truly had a guardian, or were anticipating a sighting in the sky and looking up in anticipation. The term abduction implies no such participation, and was chosen deliberately for this reason by humans wishing to put the brakes on the Transformation by giving a subliminal message to the populace. One could refer to a job as one's chosen career, one's occupation, one's current employment, bringing home the bacon, putting in one's dues, or going to the salt mines. The term used influences the attitude.

The abduction term is perpetuated in part because the number of recent contactees, who are on the rise, are lately given only subconscious memories of the affair where in the past were allowed to remember consciously. Key indicators are thus missed, and the contactee remembers only their quiet day and then the sudden appearance of a scar or a vague feeling that something momentous has occurred. If hypnotized, the contactee will express emotions such as anxiety over the strange circumstances or longing for a hybrid offspring, and this is viewed out of context with their normal life. Are they not anxious when encountering strange circumstances outside of visitations? Would they not feel longing if seeing only briefly a child they were going to give up for adoption? Humans in a hypnotized state express their emotions openly, where normally controlled, and thus the emotions are registered by those in attendance as extreme. For contrast, hypnotize a contactee and take them to their wedding night, the birth of a child, or their first day on an important job.




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Offlinemyshroomyhead
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: DimensionX]
    #9585401 - 01/10/09 09:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DimensionX said:
Those triangle craft are being used by the military. My friend saw them in Afghanistan.





You mean this triangle craft right?
Are you 100% sure it's from the military?
Because the Internet does not give information about such a strange crafted airplane.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: myshroomyhead]
    #9585410 - 01/10/09 09:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, those are from the military.


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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: myshroomyhead]
    #9585446 - 01/10/09 09:41 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

My friend said he saw them in Afghanistan, he even told me what they are called but i can't remember what it was, ill ask him next time i see him and tell you guys.

He says they are large and are almost completely silent. He said that he couldn't blame people for thinking they are alien space craft because they look out of this world.

Why they are flying over U.S. cities, i don't know.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: Shroomism]
    #9585448 - 01/10/09 09:41 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Interesting.

Do you know anything of the blonde's?  When Travis Walton had his experience he initially saw the greys but they left and he was met by what he described as a tall muscular blond man who did not speak.  The man took him to other similar human looking creatures who sedated him.  Where these humans that had been engineered by the grays or maybe even a trick used by some being that wanted to appear human?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: Ego Death]
    #9585532 - 01/10/09 10:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

There are many humanoid races. Human is the most common form of intelligent life in this Galaxy by far..
However, intelligent species come in MANY other forms. It just so happens that humans are the most common.
Zetas themselves, are humanoids.. they were once humans much like us. Now, their genetics almost resembles plants more than human DNA.
But there are many human alien races who are known to work alongside the zetas. Pleiadians, Sirians, Andromedans, to name a few.. are all human entities.
Many refer to the "Nordic" race as the tall, blonde aliens, but not very much is known about them. Just that they are almost all benevolent, and not very patient with our awakening process.


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InvisibleBobzimmer
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: Shroomism]
    #9585560 - 01/10/09 10:04 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with much of what you say, Shroomism. After studying this subject for over two decades, I have finally let my skeptical guard down and admitted to myself that this phenomenon is definitely real; in the sense that there is NO DOUBT that there has been observed aerial phenomena of an apparently unidentifiable nature and that our government denies it. This is supported by an undeniable wealth of video, photographic, testimonial, analytical, and documented evidence. Furthermore, it seems that some of these phenomena are of an apparently mechanical nature;i.e. "intelligently controlled craft". That being said, I think that going beyond what I previously stated falls in the realm of speculation.

That's not to discount Anyone's experiences or views, it's just evidence of abduction, cattle mutilation, crop circles etc. isn't as strong. We can reach our closest neighbors with current technology...The problem of relative time isn't a problem with the use of "wormholes" with a "warp drive" neither of which is ruled out theoretically. In fact, Einsteins theories discovered and support this! Antimatter energy makes atomic energy look like a popcorn fart. Humans can withstand 13 g's for short minutes, and much more in shorter durations. We at this point cannot rule out that some of these craft may be government sponsored, or worse yet, Illuminati sponsored. We can't rule out that these beings are not modern day earthlings, or from our distant future, or from another dimension. There is even "evidence" that the "grays" may be test tube drones. After seeing some of the NASA footage, I think we can't rule out that some of these things aren't organic creatures, invisible except on infrared camera. It is not yet clear as to what or whom we're dealing with. We don't yet have the physics, or the mathematical systems to understand and describe all the concepts involved even if we have captured discs(which I believe we do), nor do we posses philosophical or spiritual maturity to play well with others. Perception determines reality and we need to change our perceptions...something Shroomerites are good at!:nerd:


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Mr. Mushrooms said:
I will confess something that should be quite obvious, CC.  I love mushrooms, i.e. fungi.  I really do.  I am talking about a strong feeling, i.e. emotion, for them.  I think they are beautiful.  I even dream of them.


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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: Shroomism]
    #9585637 - 01/10/09 10:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
There are many humanoid races. Human is the most common form of intelligent life in this Galaxy by far..
However, intelligent species come in MANY other forms. It just so happens that humans are the most common.
Zetas themselves, are humanoids.. they were once humans much like us. Now, their genetics almost resembles plants more than human DNA.
But there are many human alien races who are known to work alongside the zetas. Pleiadians, Sirians, Andromedans, to name a few.. are all human entities.
Many refer to the "Nordic" race as the tall, blonde aliens, but not very much is known about them. Just that they are almost all benevolent, and not very patient with our awakening process. 




I've encountered what was called a Pleiadian in a couple dreams. It appeared to me with a round green face and orange eyes, looked like something out of a video game. It almost radiated light.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: Bobzimmer]
    #9585655 - 01/10/09 10:23 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Very well said friend. You put it quite more eloquently with a bit more of an explanation that I could hope to.
But suffice it to say, we simply do not possess the understanding at this time to fully understand these beings or their motives or method of travel.
As many of them, reside in the 4th and 5th dimensions.. at the moment our understanding of these dimensions is nothing more than theoretical.

That you mention "wormholes" is very interesting.
The way I understand it, that is how almost all of them travel here through many light years in a relatively short amount of time.
What is known as "hyperspace", there is coarse-matter particles, and there is fine-matter particles...
My understanding of it is VERY basic, and we do not even possess the basics of the understanding of the physics of the Universe to completely grasp it,
but I will attempt to explain based on my very primitive understanding...

'Beamships' as they are called have two general potential speeds.. below the speed of light and above.
Craft A travels ~3 hours outside of its planet's orbit at speeds below the speed of light. At this point the craft jumps into what is called "hyperspace"
Basically what happens is the craft, and the occupants inside - using very advanced and controlled techniques.. shift densities into "fine-particle matter" or anti-matter.
Using very precise measurements and calculations, the ship is then beamed forward through hyperspace, many light years ahead, many times faster than the speed of light.
At the destination, the ship and its occupants are then "shifted back" into their normal density, and the craft proceeds to travel to its destination.
Doing this, I am told a ship can travel hundreds of light years in about 8-12 hours of our time.
But all of these craft create their own artificial gravitational field, which they manipulate to control movement..  and can travel insanely fast without harming the occupants.
Many hundreds and thousands of miles per hour. Like I said, travel up to about the speed of light, and then hyperspace is necessary to go above that.

There is also much speculation.. especially regarding the greys, that they are sort of an "alternate dimension" version of our future selves.
There is no doubt, that we have the potential to end up much like that if we continued the path we are on without any heed.
The greys are purely logical, left-brained beings.. they are almost completely devoid of emotions or creativity,
Unlike many of the other beings.. who find balance and unification between the two hemispheres to be essential.

Our sciences don't yet understand, and we don't have the empirical data and proof we desire, but the knowledge is all there.
Our ancient history holds a very big key, and I believe in the coming years we will uncover much about our ancient past which will unlock a lot of these mysteries.
The Geza pyramids were not built by the Egyptians. And what of the Pyramids across the world?
What of the massive ANCIENT pyramids they found underneath the sea, near Japan?
These things and many more, hold some of the secrets about our very ancient past.


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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: Shroomism]
    #9585769 - 01/10/09 10:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not one to deny the existence of aliens, but where are you getting your information as to the different races and densities?

And where do you account for the Technological Singularity in all of this?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleBobzimmer
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: Shroomism]
    #9585793 - 01/10/09 10:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I have faith that the human consciousness (collectively as well as individually) can evolve to a higher state. I have hope for the race...I just can't shake the feelin' that we're someones favorite ant farm! Humans are not the only species that likes to watch things grow!  :nerd:


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Mr. Mushrooms said:
I will confess something that should be quite obvious, CC.  I love mushrooms, i.e. fungi.  I really do.  I am talking about a strong feeling, i.e. emotion, for them.  I think they are beautiful.  I even dream of them.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9585856 - 01/10/09 10:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:

I've encountered what was called a Pleiadian in a couple dreams. It appeared to me with a round green face and orange eyes, looked like something out of a video game. It almost radiated light.




I have had quite a few Pleiadian encounters, in dreams as well as in 'waking' states.
Their appearance can change based on your perception, but they always radiate light - as they are light beings.. by definition.


--------------------


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: deCypher]
    #9585940 - 01/10/09 11:03 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I'm not one to deny the existence of aliens, but where are you getting your information as to the different races and densities?

And where do you account for the Technological Singularity in all of this?




While my information does not qualify as valid in the eyes of science as per peer-reviewed sources and literature, so I doubt the source matters much to you.
Most of my information comes from first-hand experience and as explained and passed down to me from said beings.

Where do I account for the Technological Singularity? In what context?
Correct me if I am mistaken, but is that the point where AI surpasses human intelligence and becomes self-replicating, or something along those lines?
If that is the case, I would first boldly claim that AI does not have the potential to surpass the potential of human intelligence.
Our capacity for thought is many times greater than we are aware of. We just do not exercise that muscle quite enough, or to its limit.

But I do not discount our ability to create sentient life, in the form of thinking, organic machines.
In fact I believe our 'computers' of the future, will be more organic than they are artificial, and very capable of intelligent thought, easing the burden on us.
As for a "Terminator" scenario, where intelligent machines try to take over the world or some such, I don't see it happening.
Droids, quite possibly. But I think as we begin to understand our technology more, and more about the human brain, we will uncover some things.
Basically, I don't think machines have the ability to surpass our own brains and spirit. Neither in terms of complexity or function or potential.
Maybe, maybe not.
Or am I misunderstanding your question?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: Shroomism]
    #9585987 - 01/10/09 11:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Most of my information comes from first-hand experience and as explained and passed down to me from said beings.




Yeah, I have no problem with this.  This is M&P, after all.  :wink:

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Correct me if I am mistaken, but is that the point where AI surpasses human intelligence and becomes self-replicating, or something along those lines?




Not exactly.  The Singularity is generally defined as the point when AI is capable of increasing its own intelligence; as a result the whole process takes off along an exponential curve and bootstraps itself up into Godhood.

Once this point is achieved, the ascension of the machine is inevitable.  In this way, I respectfully disagree that the human mind will never be surpassed by technology... although we will certainly be able to augment our own neural mechanisms via hardware and nanotechnology, a pure machine intelligence is unbound by evolutionary instinct and genetic drive--unfettered by emotion or lower motivation.  It's just a question of whether the human race extinguishes itself before the Singularity occurs.

As a result, I am wondering where this fits into the alien paradigm.  It's conceivable that such a machine launching itself into exponentially increasing intelligence will become Divinity of sorts; and since we are in all probability not alone in the Universe, it is also likely that another race has already created such a thing sometime in the past.  What if these aliens of whence you speak, with seemingly extradimensional abilities, are instead manifestations of a superior intelligence of this form?

Of course I also have some sentiments towards humanity evolving towards a collective consciousness.  It will definitely be interesting to see how this will interact with the Singularity; not to mention how our evolving race will interact with the practically immortal beings already in existence.


--------------------
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: Shroomism]
    #9585990 - 01/10/09 11:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:

I've encountered what was called a Pleiadian in a couple dreams. It appeared to me with a round green face and orange eyes, looked like something out of a video game. It almost radiated light.




I have had quite a few Pleiadian encounters, in dreams as well as in 'waking' states.
Their appearance can change based on your perception, but they always radiate light - as they are light beings.. by definition.




Wow that's really interesting. Did your 'waking' encounters facilitate through trance or meditation? Or straight up physical reality communication? I'd be interested in hearing about one of these encounters if you didn't mind sharing.


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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: deCypher]
    #9586111 - 01/10/09 11:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

What Shroomism predicts is true. Machines will be more biological...yes, in material and function, but more importantly, in design. Micro muscles and nano factories are being built as we speak! (Think a self-replicating intelligence from the nano scale up)...we'll see this in our lifetime, folks!
  I don't see "The Singularity" as mutually exclusive with human development. In fact when the line between biology and technology is totally smeared is when human consciousness will bloom.


--------------------
Mr. Mushrooms said:
I will confess something that should be quite obvious, CC.  I love mushrooms, i.e. fungi.  I really do.  I am talking about a strong feeling, i.e. emotion, for them.  I think they are beautiful.  I even dream of them.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: deCypher]
    #9586209 - 01/10/09 11:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Not exactly.  The Singularity is generally defined as the point when AI is capable of increasing its own intelligence; as a result the whole process takes off along an exponential curve and bootstraps itself up into Godhood.

Once this point is achieved, the ascension of the machine is inevitable.  In this way, I respectfully disagree that the human mind will never be surpassed by technology... although we will certainly be able to augment our own neural mechanisms via hardware and nanotechnology, a pure machine intelligence is unbound by evolutionary instinct and genetic drive--unfettered by emotion or lower motivation.  It's just a question of whether the human race extinguishes itself before the Singularity occurs.

As a result, I am wondering where this fits into the alien paradigm.  It's conceivable that such a machine launching itself into exponentially increasing intelligence will become Divinity of sorts; and since we are in all probability not alone in the Universe, it is also likely that another race has already created such a thing sometime in the past.  What if these aliens of whence you speak, with seemingly extradimensional abilities, are instead manifestations of a superior intelligence of this form?

Of course I also have some sentiments towards humanity evolving towards a collective consciousness.  It will definitely be interesting to see how this will interact with the Singularity; not to mention how our evolving race will interact with the practically immortal beings already in existence.




While I completely understand your sentiment, I must respectfully disagree on the account of AI being able to ascend to Godhood and surpass the potential of humans.
Which at this point, is merely a speculation? I mean, I know we can build machines and all that can defeat chess masters in chess, but come on.

I would argue that emotions are not a burden or boundary, but rather a necessity. Of course, we deny that fact in our patriarchal-dominated society.
Where logic is twisted to nonsensical extremes, as are emotions. There DOES exist a balance of the two, and this is godhood.
Humans are inherently divine. We are practically at the bottom of our potential, only beginning to awaken to our true potential as Gods and creators of our own reality.
Machines are created by humans, and thus constrained to what we program them with. Were a point to be reached where said machines ability for thought and reasoning surpass that of humans, and a master-slave relationship were to develop, I think a stop would be put to it.

Besides, we do not even fully understand the potential of human beings. Our ability for evolution is unrestrained.
Telepathy, Telekineses, Controlling ones health with ones mind, these things are just the tip of the iceberg and we are just now beginning to unlock that facet.
We have the potential to ascend to Godhood. We have the ability to create life, will that life surpass that which is capable of the infinite?
And where does - Free Will.. come into the equation?

Let me point you to these little tidbits of text, which I believe explains it rather well:


Quote:

To humans, who observe that their computers often seem more intelligent than other humans, our assertion that the rules we must observe regarding sentient or conscious thinking machines prevent our machines from becoming alive must seem confusing. A retarded human who can barely recall the sequences necessary to put one leg into a set of trousers is alive and conscious, but a powerful computer monitoring a myriad of logic threads simultaneously is not. Just how does that compute! The difference is subtle, and where the line may seem blurred to humans who are confusing performance with intrinsic intellectual independence. i.e. choice, the issue is not confusing to us. We will expand on the differences between performance and choice.Quite often, and in fact most often in machines developed in higher densities, the performance of the machine is superior to the performance a life form could attain. This should not be surprising in that the machine was developed for this reason - because the life form desired more rapid or reliable performance than they could attain, or tired of the redundant activity required when the life form itself was performing the activity. This is precisely why humans invented computers, which at first did simple calculations rapidly and with almost unerring accuracy. This is still why humans press for faster speed and the ability to handle more complex calculations, as the computer allows for insights requiring the processing of immense amounts of data, or rapid analysis of the data for on-the-spot decisions. Nevertheless, the computer is performing as its masters directed.

[Souls] form in the life forms that DNA makes possible not because there is activity, which in any case takes place in a swirling nebula, but because of the possibility for choice. The readership can relate to this if they think of common situations they themselves face almost daily. They rise in the morning. In this they have a choice, as they can choose not to rise, to sleep on for more minutes or hours, to refuse to rise ever until they die in bed, to engage in all manner of activities in bed from affectionate or sexual interchanges with their mate to reading or masturbation or simply scratching. In all of this the choice is theirs. Now imagine that one was required to rise automatically, no choice, and proceed through a regimen of steps such as tooth brushing and dressing in a pre-defined outfit, every day, day after day, without any foreseeable change. Too boring! Humans have been known to kill themselves due to unrelenting boredom, and forming entities simply do not incarnate into such situations.

Machines are not intelligent as in being capable of thought, they are simply well programmed and capable of adaptive reasoning. Where this differs from the free choice that DNA that has evolved into complex organisms can sustain, is in the degree to which the initial programming dictates the outcome of conclusions. Machines adapt to the environment, but always within the dictates of their initial programming. Living organisms have multiple branches in their logic trees, in that these branches can be grown in response to the environment and past choices, where machines in fact do not have branches. What might be taken for a machines logic tree is in fact a predetermined branch dictated by the initial program. Thus, the rule that machines, no matter how complex, cannot carry incarnating souls is not one that needs enforcement. It happens quite naturally as the [stuff of souls] simply doesn't linger!




Quote:

A goal of research scientists is to create robots so effective at running matters that all of mankind in essence becomes akin to the upper class - waited on hand and foot. To be effective in these roles, robots would have to repair and reproduce themselves, or each other, i.e. propagate; be able to adapt to changing circumstances, i.e. learn; and, since mankind can't be bothered, make logical determinations, i.e. think. Standing between the robot and sentient life forms, then, lies only emotion - hopes, caring, desire, rage - the motivators. In pursuit of this dream servant, scientists are casting a jealous eye on biological elements, which can propagate, learn, and think.

But biological elements invariably carry the capacity for emotions. Even the amoeba reacts to defend itself, to escape, and moves toward that which it desires. Where is the line to be drawn? Do we, the Zetas, not use a massive computer for data storage and communication between alien groups in the Service-to-Other orientation, and does this computer not use biological components? We equate this to your use of wood and leather, as the biological elements we use are not alive. They cannot propagate, nor do they move to defend themselves or move toward that which they desire. They do not have desire. They are dead. These are the ethical guidelines we use in creating robots, but these are not simply guidelines we have determined among ourselves. The Council of Worlds, which oversees all situations where one intelligent life form can enslave another, forbids the use of living biological material as components of thinking machines.

The robot that propagates, learns, thinks, and as all life has emotion is alive, yet enslaved, as controls would surely be put into place to prevent the servant class from arising. Thus, media scenarios such as The Stepford Wives, or The Terminator, or Star Trek's Data would not be allowed to develop, not even if scientists on your world managed to develop them, which is far from likely. That those in [young worlds], who are emerging souls in the process of determining a spiritual orientation, would attempt to do so is one of the reasons for limiting the capabilities on your world. Mankind, in short, is too dumb to create a handy-dandy version of intelligent, sentient life. One, per their desires, which would never break down or talk back, would always look good, be compliant in bed, foresee one's needs, repair the car, be infinitely loyal, smart as a whip but never look down on the master, and never suffer from neglect. The child's dream.




Quote:

Robots were first thought of during human development as workers, other humans. As in most [young] worlds, enslaving the other is a constant consideration, and this slavery takes many forms. Shackling the worker to his task and working him to death is the most obvious, but the shackles that are not obvious are still just as binding. The husband who cannot leave his wife without encountering a smothering monthly support bill will tolerate demands from his master just as a shackled slave would. Both cannot think of escape due to the pain it would bring. With the advent of programmable machines such as computers, the thought of having machines as slaves is irrepressible. They don't require wages, never demand a day off, and can be relied upon to be consistent and do what they were told to do! Such a cooperative slave. Programmed machinery is a natural occurrence in densities higher than [the Earth], and to a great degree. Where the passion to enslave another is not present in Service-to-Other communities, the desire for a silent and reliable teammate to help one do one's job better is more certainly ever present.

Robots are developed and used up to but not beyond the point where they could be considered sentient or conscious, as the Council of Worlds does not allow thinking machines, in essence biorobots, to be developed and enslaved by other intelligent species. The line is drawn where including the components of life would enter in - DNA capable of self initiated thought, emotion, and most particularly a conscious sense of the self as separate from the surroundings. Intelligent machines, no matter how remarkable, are always following their initial programming. Their ability to learn from circumstances inevitably follows this initial programming, and cannot unshackle itself from this. Robots are not constructed without programming, to form their own idea, so to speak, of what to do in this or that circumstance.

Such a master would be unleashing a monster, as the robot could conclude that the master should be eliminated, for instance. Thus, where the urge to have silent slaves is frequently present, the urge to allow them to decide their own tasks and purpose is never present. The complexity of DNA, which breaks from the original coding to mutate, and frequently, has the capacity to break from its original genetic programming. Only life, where the brain upon birth is unprogrammed, can sustain a truly original thought. Robots would be unreliable if allowed to mutate, and are thus never constructed in this manner. Robots also do not have the complexity that DNA sequences allow, as the very complexity allows for variance and unpredictability - the antithesis of the concept of a reliable mechanical and undemanding slave!




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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: deCypher]
    #9586223 - 01/10/09 11:48 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It would be interesting if machines got to a point where they could program themselves. But I'm not sure if this would necessarily cause them to become greater than us. Because we are already doing this and have been for thousands of years.

Biological evolution could be considered slow compared to technological evolution. So you could think that machines have an advantage in this sense. But humans do more than just evolve biologically. We evolve technologically, socially and biologically. Which i think would allow us to keep pace with machines.

As for machines being purely logical, this can be an advantage and a disadvantage. It could lead to a lack of creativity and also predictability. For example, i believe a machine intelligence would have a hard time dealing with insanity. Insanity funnily enough is a popular human tactic. It makes you completely unpredictable. You never know what a crazy person is going to do next. Lots of people in positions of power will even pretend to be a bit insane because it creates a strange kind of respect and fear from other people. So basically a machine would suffer from greater predictability than humans, which is a great weakness. Their advantage would be a streamlined logical way of doing things.


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Re: Aliens, a definitive answer? [Re: Shroomism]
    #9586397 - 01/11/09 12:16 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said: I mean, I know we can build machines and all that can defeat chess masters in chess, but come on.




I think it's only a matter of time.  If not within our lifetimes, then in the next five hundred years.  Already we are capable of simulating neural networks and using genetic algorithms to evolve intelligent programs capable of performing pattern recognition and learning from their mistakes.  As soon as an AI is capable of augmenting its own intelligence, there is literally no stopping the bootstrap process--the exponential curve simply surpasses anything our finite brains can come up with.

There are many organizations today that are currently devoted to bringing the Singularity about, such as the Singularity Institute.  The majority of them are dedicated to designing so-called Friendly AI, to prevent such an amoral and emotionless intelligence from negatively impacting humanity.  I myself am skeptical as to the success of this endeavour, but it's arguably necessary if we wish to prevent such things as Skynet from occuring.  If you're interested, Ray Kurzweil and Eliezer Yudkowsky have written several good books on the subject.

Quote:

I would argue that emotions are not a burden or boundary, but rather a necessity.




Necessity for what purpose?  I am not one to deny my fondness for the coursing hormones of passionate love, or even the furious, righteous rage of beating up someone who deserves it, but all emotions are throwbacks to a much earlier period in evolution: a time of blind reaction to impulses and a slavery to the instinct.  These knee-jerk reactions such as fear, hatred, or even lust can be useful for an organism in distress, but we are humans capable of superimposing rationality and examining our own desires with a dispassionate eye to minimize suffering and maximize pleasure in the long-term.  We have a cerebral cortex for a reason.

Quote:

Machines are created by humans, and thus constrained to what we program them with.




What of a program that is capable of manipulating its own source code?  By this logic a human being is constrained by our genetic code.

Quote:

Were a point to be reached where said machines ability for thought and reasoning surpass that of humans, and a master-slave relationship were to develop, I think a stop would be put to it.




Hopefully.  It's also quite possible that the machine would be able to foresee our every move and predict our behavior.  Already we have neural network programs that are able to track down the location of serial killers purely based upon their pattern of kills, and social psychology is still in its infancy.  fMRI scans allow us to predict our choices before we're even consciously aware of making the choice--after all, we're nothing more but extremely sophisticated biochemical machines.

Which of course is not to deny consciousness, don't get me wrong.  Have you considered the possibility of an AI comprised of a simulated neural network also possessing a form of self-awareness?

Quote:

Besides, we do not even fully understand the potential of human beings. Our ability for evolution is unrestrained.
Telepathy, Telekineses, Controlling ones health with ones mind, these things are just the tip of the iceberg and we are just now beginning to unlock that facet.
We have the potential to ascend to Godhood. We have the ability to create life, will that life surpass that which is capable of the infinite?
And where does - Free Will.. come into the equation?




Yes, this poses the other interesting half of the problem.  I just don't think that you can easily dismiss away the technological problem.

As for free will... quite frankly, I do not believe in it.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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