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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

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What is Heaven?
    #5408267 - 03/16/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

To you, what would Heaven be?


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: daimyo]
    #5408287 - 03/16/06 01:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The end of samsara.


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5408307 - 03/16/06 01:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think being the first 5 star General to also be an Iron Chef would work for me.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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OfflinePeyote_Princess
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: daimyo]
    #5408321 - 03/16/06 01:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I was raised in a traditional Anglican family; so had the whole idea of heaven being somewhere akin to Eden, being with those people I loved and cared about... never had the whole "fluffy white clouds" thing that I think some people raised in that situation do.

Now - I've grown older, I live away from home and now my idea of heaven is more of a 'heaven on earth' variety. Not that this world is perfect, but I try to make for myself that circle of bliss that makes me happy; with people I love, places I love, a music track, a good night out - all these things can make my heaven...

and as for life after death - I hope in my next life I can learn to make bliss as I do now


--------------------
"Was I talking? ... Did they hear me?"


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: daimyo]
    #5408369 - 03/16/06 01:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Heaven would be release from all forms of addiction/attachment.


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OfflinePeyote_Princess
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #5408668 - 03/16/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

But doesn't 'addiction' release you from attachment to the material?

It's the hunt, and then the release... then the feeling that you experience - entirely unattached from the physical world, and into the meta-physical

Peyote_Princess xXx :mushroom2:


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"Was I talking? ... Did they hear me?"


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: Peyote_Princess]
    #5408682 - 03/16/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Peyote_Princess said:
But doesn't 'addiction' release you from attachment to the material?





I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that.

To me, addiction is attachment. Attachment to "the material" is just another way of saying addiction to materialism.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: Peyote_Princess]
    #5408683 - 03/16/06 02:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Peyote_Princess said:
It's the hunt, and then the release... then the feeling that you experience - entirely unattached from the physical world, and into the meta-physical





As far as I am concerned, you are describing life collectively. The latter part--"entirely unattached from the physical world"--would be heaven, or freedom from attachment and addiction.


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OfflinePeyote_Princess
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #5408759 - 03/16/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

addiction is attachment - but the drug opens up doors away from that; the words "attachment" or "addiction" don't even exist when you're having a good time.  They say "time flies when you're having fun" and that's true - for that you don't need drugs either, I find my freedom sometimes just on the dancefloor dancing hard and having a laugh and a flirt around with my friends... that's freedom for me, that's heaven.  But I think it's a personal thing - not everyone's heaven is the same... nor should it be; for the essence of humanity is it's variety and opportunity.  You don't have to be the same as who you're parents were, but neither do you have to attempt to be deliberately different - heaven can only be found when you accept yourself, and are happy as who you are... then you can discover what it is that makes you happy.

Peyote_Princess xXx :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Was I talking? ... Did they hear me?"


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: Peyote_Princess]
    #5408802 - 03/16/06 02:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Right, that's all fine and good, but addiction doesn't release you from attachment to the material. Using certain drugs may create a scenario in which you are more likely to find your way to freedom from attachment to materialism, but it certainly does not CAUSE that release...

and it's a jump to describe the potential unfolding of the mind caused by drug use as "addiction" in the first place, as addiction is more like a potential or possible side-effect of that drug use.

Even in a scenario in which an addictive habit helps one to see past attachment to materialism, it is, in essence, just trading one attachment for another.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: daimyo]
    #5414957 - 03/18/06 01:02 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

For me it is 'knowledge' and 'wisdom' and the according reality represented :laugh:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflinePeyote_Princess
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5415638 - 03/18/06 11:37 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

but what of the statement "ignorance is bliss" - the closer we get to any form of empirical truth, it seems to me that humans are unhappier... and we come to a point in scientific understanding, that just because we can do something, then we should do that thing, and I'm not sure that is always the right thing.

Maybe I can see where you're coming from BlueCoyote - if "wisdom" is defined as an acceptance of the word as-is, an a full acceptance of the self - for only when one is at home in their own mind can they be fully themselves, fully happy, and fully interactive with others...

but then there's the 2 copntradictory ideas of...

hell is other people... Sartre

and

man is a political animal... Aristotle


--------------------
"Was I talking? ... Did they hear me?"


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InvisibleMystikMushroom
I RULE YOU!
Registered: 10/11/04
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: Peyote_Princess]
    #5416241 - 03/18/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Heaven is a state of mind...and yes what peyote princess quoted from Sartre could be seen correct...other people choose not to live in a state of heaven by their words and actions.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: daimyo]
    #5416348 - 03/18/06 03:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

daimyo said:
To you, what would Heaven be?




Heaven could be what you let it be! :smile:


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Disclaimer!?


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: Gomp]
    #5419062 - 03/19/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

oops, to Peyote_Princess

I mean wisdom and knowledge of everything :psychsplit:
And ignorance just may start behind the horizont
:shineon:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflinePeyote_Princess
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5419518 - 03/19/06 05:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
oops, to Peyote_Princess

I mean wisdom and knowledge of everything :psychsplit:
And ignorance just may start behind the horizont
:shineon:




heehee, send some invisible jelly babies to me and I may just forgive you....

That makes more sense now its clarified hun; though I'm not sure that wisdom/knowledge of everything would be heaven for me... too much responsability, and I also find that bliss is the quest, it is the searching and looking for answers and the journey that it takes you on that is so important to me...

omg - I sound like I take so many psychadelics!!!  Ahh, I suppose thats what happens when you give a theology major student trippy substances!  But its all good!

Peyote_Princess xXx :mushroom2:


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"Was I talking? ... Did they hear me?"


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InvisibleKerbouchardS
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: daimyo]
    #5420061 - 03/19/06 07:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Heaven... unconditional sunlight without any darkness.
Heaven= the one... the one existence, the one mindset... god is heaven.
We are here, unfortunately. And no matter what drugs you've been on you haven't been 'there' for long.'
Heaven calls... heaven on earth, truly a concept? One way to find out! Heaven is for love and for heathens


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"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Decides Who's Left."


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: Peyote_Princess]
    #5421959 - 03/20/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Peyote_Princess said:
Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
oops, to Peyote_Princess

I mean wisdom and knowledge of everything :psychsplit:
And ignorance just may start behind the horizont
:shineon:




heehee, send some invisible jelly babies to me and I may just forgive you....



hehe, sent :wink:


Quote:

That makes more sense now its clarified hun; though I'm not sure that wisdom/knowledge of everything would be heaven for me... too much responsability, and I also find that bliss is the quest, it is the searching and looking for answers and the journey that it takes you on that is so important to me...



You will understand, that it is all good, the way it is. But your help is and will be allways appreciated from what direction you will offer your help to :lol: For some, heaven is ignorance, but it is very dark there and you will be surrounded by it :wink: And even in light-heaven, there are chill-rooms, so you never will be forced to be responsible :lol: But you MAY.
In dark heaven all the rules change, but perhaps it will be good for some there, obviously :wink: [but please just let it begin behind the horizont :lol:]


Quote:

omg - I sound like I take so many psychadelics!!!  Ahh, I suppose thats what happens when you give a theology major student trippy substances!  But its all good!



That's why we are here in MRP :laugh:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibledorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5423139 - 03/20/06 08:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

What is it that we have to learn you think? Isn't heaven more about detachment and letting go?

All knowledge is in the moment. No one can own that. No one ones wisdom. It is beginners mind, is it not?


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: dorkus]
    #5424322 - 03/21/06 01:35 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Nono, only the human brain is too simple to get a full catch on complete truth (of reality and irreality). It only can grasp facettes of it. The wise men keep in mind, that there is always more to know about everything. And personal knowledge always is partially.
These bonds of physical organisms will fall apart in heaven (wherever or whatever it is [even perhaps on earth with enlightened people]), just naturally and if you are on the light side, you will immediately be connected to every part of knowledge wich is possible and impossible :wink: [if not, you will be cut off of this universal knowledge aka true wisdom]
It is only the limitation of our organic human mind. The spirit is not bond to organic or physical stuff.
The more you know, the more you can let go or choose to change something (interact) and time becomes relative, like a tool :heart:

And yes, it is like beginners mind because more and more -> all = nothing. The naivity of the now, the big Omnil, the eyes of a child :laugh:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (03/21/06 01:40 AM)


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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: daimyo]
    #5424333 - 03/21/06 01:50 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Ego-Death.
Complete oneness, and connection with everything. Been there.
It would be reassuring to think that we could all stay there forever one day.
But to be aware at the same time.
Your friends, your family, your enemies, your dead pets, aliens.
All united, remembering each others lives, weeping over the misunderstandings, and laughing at the stupidity of it all.


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OfflinePeyote_Princess
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: Dreamer987]
    #5426441 - 03/21/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Knowledge is Power - Foucault

Only it is not necessarily saying that when you have knowledge, then you have power through posessing said knowledge...

but when something/someone imparts 'knowledge' then we ought to think who is gaining power through this knowledge imparted?

Think: Nazi and apartheid propaganda, newspapers telling stories of the war on terrorism...

Peyote_Princess xXx :mushroom2:


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OfflineeternalSoul
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Re: What is Heaven? [Re: daimyo]
    #17050858 - 10/17/12 08:12 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I am kind of agnostic because I'm not sure what I believe in but I used to be Catholic. I hate the idea of reincarnation although it is probably possible.

There is this documentary called "The Day I Died". There is a strong NDE (Near Death Experience) case of a woman named Pamela Anderson. She was "clinically" dead with her blood drained out of her body, heart beat and breathing stopped, no brain activity as they were sawing in to her brain, eyes closed, yet she was able to recall what happened. She even described the tool and what it looked like. It stumped the doctors because she hasn't seen the tools. Many skeptics and scientists tried to debunk this but it is merely their theories and heck, they weren't even in the room to witness this.


I am not a believer of most of these cases but this one I do believe. Many of the others I am skeptical of. Anyways, scientists say if consciousness does exist, their theory is that there are types of smaller energies that exist within the micro tubules of the brain and disperse some how when the body dies. That in essence would be our consciousness,mind, or soul...whatever you want to call it.

With that in consideration, our mind is very powerful. We can make whatever we want a reality living in our own crazy world. We dream crazy things, we perceive what we want.

So what's to come of this? I'd like to believe our consciousness/mind/soul exists outside the body and heaven is a state of mind. We live in our own perception of heaven with limitless things to do in a state of happiness, peace, and love. Of course, if you're just an angry person full of hate it might be your own hell. Anyways, basically I guess it's all in our heads and we have the ability to interact with other souls or consciousness.
In my "heaven":
time would not exist so therefore we can't get bored. we may be naive
doing the funnest things we won't get tired of
there will be trillions of different things to do such as explore dimensions and cosmos
we experience things through other people and can learn
I can see what it's like to live through a bird or another person
I can create things in simulation
I can haunt if I want to
I can sleep for eons in unconsciousness and wake up when I want (this could make Atheists happy)
I could spend time with loved ones when I want

All I want is to be happy, always be who I am, and be with my loved ones. That is why reincarnation isn't for me...lol I don't know anyone that would love to be reincarnated unless their life sucks or was cut so short.

This could all be just wishful thinking but it's something I'd like to believe. I'd rather it be this or NOTHING. I wouldn't mind it being nothing if life was long and fulfilling...


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