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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else?
    #12365466 -

Hi all. I just received a few new cacti. I'm just curious to know the exact I.D.

Meaning if it's a regular pachanoi, a Backberg, or some other variant. I know it's a San Pedro, I'm just uncertain as to which type.

Top View:


Closeup View:


Overall View:



So what do you all think?
Thanks in advance and I apologize but I'm very new to cacti collecting!

:peace:

:sanpedro: :awecid: :sanpedro:


--------------------
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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #12365746 -

Yep. Just a Backeberg, they're still a nice cactus to have.


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Hail Satan!Hail Satan!

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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: karode13]
    #12365800 -

Are Backbergs crossbred or are they native to somewhere and just named after the discoverer?

Do they have higher mescaline content than a normal pachanoi?

TY


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #12365889 -

As best as anyone can discern the 'Backberg Clone' is not indigenous to anywhere and may be a hybrid or just a cultivated clone. Historically its name is meant to indicate it as a T. pachanoi clone brought to the US by the cactus botanist Backberg who documented many species, however the 'backberg clone' does not match any description Backberg ever made of T. pachanoi :confused: Some now call it PC (predominant cultivar).
They are notoriously weaker than normal T. pachanoi, T. bridgesii, and genuine T. peruvianus.. but perhaps roughly on par with T. scopulichola.


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The Nook

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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: Auxin]
    #12368415 -

A nice healthy backberg can be quite strong in my experience. Maybe not as strong as the best peruvianus, but still very worth the hassle.


FH

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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: felixhigh]
    #12372335 -

Dude somebody sent me links to a bunch of threads that try to establish what a real peruvianus, pachanoi, and similar species are.

In my opinion the large distributor in Central/South America screwed things up for the whole World. Nobody really knows what's what, and unless you actually go down and get a specimen yourself the chances are that you don't even own what you think you own.

I also looked at the trichorceus identification key. It's hard to even make out what you have using that key. It's like nobody really even knows, even the experts seem to just be guessing...


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #12372565 -

The reason backbergs/PC's are said not to be true T. pachanoi is primarily due to flower bud and fruit color/structure.

Here's a link with info on the situation.


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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: Cactusdan]
    #12372647 -

Cactusdan said:
The reason backbergs/PC's are said not to be true T. pachanoi is primarily due to flower bud and fruit color/structure.

Here's a link with info on the situation.


you say tomayto. i say tomatoe.

its all innacurate. nobody knows really.

especially not some dude named trout. and especially not Karel Knize.

all misinformation. who cares for a name. not me. i care for the beauty of the cacti in question. which is so common it cannnot be bred by 2 different plants.

my shortspined peruvianus, a described by zircon, is probably the closest thing i have to a real pachanoi.

looks almost identical to the links you provided dan. but i don;t really care they are very beautiful specimens.


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode

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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: ferrel_human]
    #12372666 -

Here here.

I am all for the beauty of the plants as well.

Botanists however, aren't as concerned about beauty and care more for the accurate nomenclature :lol:


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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: Cactusdan]
    #12372676 -

Cactusdan said:
Here here.

I am all for the beauty of the plants as well.

Botanists however, aren't as considered about beauty and care more for the accurate nomenclature :lol:


ain't that the truth.:wink:


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode

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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: ferrel_human]
    #12372776 -

I sort of care for three things. Alkaloid content, beauty, and since I love collecting things I especially care about proper identification. :smile:


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: mushroomhunter10] * 1
    #12372815 -

There are two ways to go about proper identification.

1. The M.S. Smith method - Make new species for those with different growing styles than have been recorded previously. I would like to state that M.S. is an INCREDIBLY knowledgeable individual and is a very active part of sorting out the Trichocereus debacle. However, I feel he could look through 100 seedlings from the same fruit and find 20 new species.

2. The average man's method - Figure out what species your specimen fits closest to and say it's _________anoid.

The fact of the matter is that most Trichs are mutts.

The biggest reason being is that importation of different genes has been incredibly slow or low key.

There are a few major genetics that have been widely distributed.

Because, Trichocereus are self-sterile another plant that is not from the same original plant(clone) is needed to fertilize them in order to produce seeds, but because the gene pool is so small, many cultivators hybrid them to get seed.

This creates new plants that no one has seen and thus can't be properly named.


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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: Cactusdan]
    #12372923 -

Cactusdan said:
Because, Trichocereus are self-sterile another plant that is not from the same original plant(clone) is needed to fertilize them in order to produce seeds, but because the gene pool is so small, many cultivators hybrid them to get seed.

This creates new plants that no one has seen and thus can't be properly named.


seems like something i will consider. IF, they ever flower.


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode

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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: ferrel_human]
    #12373482 -

I'd say the real answer lies with genetic barcoding and a little processor time on some academic computing cluster.

I'm comfortable IDing pachs, but man all the other popular trichs make me feel like I'm not getting something.  I know it's not just me, but frustrating none the less.  Bioassay is the only sure way.  I always keep the tip until after the taste test.

I've had decent luck with PC pachs, but I only buy them if they are on the larger side for the price and very dark.  Last batch I had seemed very strong in secondary alks and moderately strong in mescaline, but had me at a very nice +++.

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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: dokunai]
    #12373736 -

Here are a few links somebody sent me. It seems that even M.S. Smith has difficulty discerning which species a given specimen is.

www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15745
www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20540
www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15732


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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Re: New Cacti - T. pachanoi - Can I get an I.D. if it's regular or Backberg or something else? [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #12376264 -

So then according to the most respected authorities on these Trichocereus species which vendors are the most reliable when ordering a specific species?

If you're not allowed to post it here then can you PM me?

Thanks!


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
Jesus if you're reading this, please come back already. We need you now more than ever!
The U.S. Constitution!

Best WBS Tek
EZ Potato-Honey Agar Tek
MY TRADES

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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