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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: We need some rules on sporting events [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #12295868 -

First of all, the S&P split into two forums was a long complicated process mostly due to tons of people complaining that they didn't have a place where they could post their beliefs without being ripped to shreds constantly.  I wasn't the main factor behind it, but I did fully support the idea due to having to deal with the constant drama that forum generated and constant complaints from the regulars. And that was a long while ago, 4-6 years at least if memory serves. I fail to see how that has any correlation to this topic however. And it's worked out fairly well so far. And it had nothing to do with censorship.

My bad on assuming he meant the content of threads and not just the title, guess I misunderstood. That seems more reasonable.
And you're right, it takes all of 10 seconds to edit a thread title to say Silva vs GSP or whatever.
Most of our time is spent editing the actual content of posts, not titles to answer your question.
The time issue isn't even really a big concern at all, I mean I spent the better part of 15 mins writing this post.

But playing devil's advocate again, what are we supposed to do... stay current with all the sports events and know when something is 2 hours old VS 2 weeks old? And what is the threshold for allowing "spoilers" in thread titles? An hour? A week? A year? That's where the arbitrary part comes in. How long do we go before determining it's "ok" to post sensitive material about a film/fight/whatever?

And why would this rule only be in the Pub? Isn't there numerous other forums where such info could be found as well?

And again, how are we to determine what is an old spoiler vs a new one?
I'm not against the idea completely, but it just seems to me like it would be futile :shrug:

The script idea on paper sounds good... but that brings up two issues:
1. Probably a pain to code
2. You're going to filter out certain keywords from appearing in titles.. how is that going to stop someone from posting Sylva just beat the FUCK out of GSP?

Even if this took zero of the mods time to enforce, I still question it based on pure logistics.

Perhaps other mods may feel differently. I'm just not convinced there's a need to censor spoilers in thread titles.. probably just because I don't care about spoilers.. I'll read about the ending to a movie before I've watched it, doesn't ruin it for me. :shrug:
I watch movies for the content... the acting, the directing, the plot progression etc, none of which can  be conveyed in a simple spoiler, bob kills john.
Same thing with UFC, I don't anymore but I used to regularly watch UFC. When I missed one and came on the Shroomery and read about it, I'd see who won, and watch the fight later to watch the actual fight. Knowing who won isn't going to spoil it.

And again, isn't it the inherent nature of a message board, to be a place for people to discuss in great detail, current events and other such things?

I guess I just don't understand, why you would be so intent on a sports event, that you want the internet to suppress the information on a past event until you've watched it on whatever time it is convenient for you to watch it. It's arbitrary because it probably only applies to a handful of people that feel that way, and the times are totally arbitrary. After an event is over with, the results should be free game. I agree people probably shouldn't go posting spoilers all over thread titles, but why should we stop them.. and if someone posts the results of RETURN OF THE JEDI, should I edit that thread title too because maybe someone hasn't seen it yet?

My basic argument is that if you don't want to see the spoilers for PAST events. You probably shouldn't go browsing internet message boards, or be on the internet in the first place. Watch the UFC fight first, if it's THAT important you see it with no expectations. Of course people are going to be talking about it.


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Re: We need some rules on sporting events [Re: Shroomism]
    #12296124 -

Well, I believe the similarities between this and P&S split are more relevant than you're realizing, but I don't want to cloud the issue and go off on a tangent.  Plus I feel like it would start an argument with you about it and that isn't my intention.  There's plenty here to debate the issue on without it so I'll drop it.

Yeah, now I see why you say that was arbitrary.  But I don't see any need for embargo on this rule.  I know it was suggested, but as you pointed out, it needlessly complicates the issue.  If it was something that's deemed worthy, then it should be a flat rule.  You simply just don't ever post spoilers in the title. 

Yeah there are other forums where it could be disclosed, namely the sports forum.  It wouldn't be a bad idea in there either, but I'm not sure how it would be accepted.  That's the place spoilers are most likely to be seen and that's why the author claimed he avoids it entirely when he doesn't want to see results, as do I.  The biggest problem about it to me is that you could still see the thread title in the last posts of the main page. 

It sometimes happens in OTD, but rarely.  And since OTD isn't as heavily moderated and it's entire concept is to allow near complete freedom of speech (even if they want to be an ass and ruin something for someone), I don't see applying this rule to it.  The pub is where I've seen this happen the most and where it would be the most easily enforced.  Any other forums would be really off topic as far as I can see.

Don't you think if it was made a rule, that the vast majority of posters would accept it with little disagreement?  It's already a rare problem in the entirety of the Pub and after a short adjustment, I'll bet it would be a problem you almost never encountered. 

For your first point, I know the script could be a really difficult code, that's why I said I wouldn't ask that Ythan do it.  It could be really nice and apply in a variety of different uses that we haven't even thought about though, so I believe it's worth thinking about at least.

Secondly, for example if my list contained the words Anderson Silva, GSP, St. Pierre, UFC, etc. that entire thread title could have a red bar across it to designate my spoiler cover for sporting events or the UFC more specifically.  Then I would know not to mouse over or view the contents of that thread.  Depending on how it was implemented, if you had a variety of lists with different cover colors, I could type in every new movie that I was interested in and threads like that might be designated with a blue spoiler cover.  Though honestly I can't recall seeing a movie spoiler in a title, and I avoid viewing threads about movies I've yet to see. 

The script could apply to more than spoilers as well.  Perhaps some more sensitive members don't want to see posts about abortion, or the president, and they could be tagged and covered as well. 

As you said, it's likely that your indifference to spoilers has contributed your dismissal of this ideas merit, but a lot of people don't like knowing the ending of something before they've seen rest.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: We need some rules on sporting events [Re: Shroomism]
    #12296301 -

Well you added more after I finished typing what I had, so...

Quote:
I watch movies for the content... the acting, the directing, the plot progression etc, none of which can  be conveyed in a simple spoiler, bob kills john.
Same thing with UFC, I don't anymore but I used to regularly watch UFC. When I missed one and came on the Shroomery and read about it, I'd see who won, and watch the fight later to watch the actual fight. Knowing who won isn't going to spoil it.


That's great for you.  Many other people feel differently.

Quote:
And again, isn't it the inherent nature of a message board, to be a place for people to discuss in great detail, current events and other such things?


Absolutely.  What have I said that you feel is in disagreement with that?  How is changing the title of a thread to move a small piece of information, that would still be disclosed in the content of the thread, preventing that from occurring?
I'm apologize in advance because I said I wouldn't (and you hadn't finished typing your response when I said that) but since you next sentence make it clear that you wrote the above with the idea that this is suppressing the exchange of information (even when it wouldn't be in this case), it really confuses me that you don't see the parallels to the P&S thing.

Quote:
I guess I just don't understand, why you would be so intent on a sports event, that you want the internet to suppress the information on a past event until you've watched it on whatever time it is convenient for you to watch it.


Your injecting the idea of suppression where it wouldn't exist.  Maybe I didn't get to watch the UFC that night because I was in the hospital watching my brother die.  We always watched the UFC together.  We debated the outcomes on his deathbed and I'm hoping to watch the even at a later time for small bit of happiness in a time of sorrow.  I come one to the Shroomery to seek the support of my friends here and let them know what's happening and see the events spoiled. There are tons of reasons that people might not get to see the events live, and keeping them out of the titles isn't asking very much.


Quote:
It's arbitrary because it probably only applies to a handful of people that feel that way, and the times are totally arbitrary. After an event is over with, the results should be free game. I agree people probably shouldn't go posting spoilers all over thread titles, but why should we stop them


What?  How can you agree that something shouldn't be done and then ask why should it be stopped?

Quote:
and if someone posts the results of RETURN OF THE JEDI, should I edit that thread title too because maybe someone hasn't seen it yet?


Forgive me for clouding the subject by talking about movies as well.  The original author only suggested sporting events and I'm the one who mentioned movies, but mostly in relation to the script idea. 

Quote:
My basic argument is that if you don't want to see the spoilers for PAST events. You probably shouldn't go browsing internet message boards, or be on the internet in the first place. Watch the UFC fight first, if it's THAT important you see it with no expectations. Of course people are going to be talking about it.



My reply to this would further force me to argue a point I said I would drop and it's already mostly been answered.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: We need some rules on sporting events [Re: Shroomism]
    #12296652 -

Shroomism said:
My basic argument is that if you don't want to see the spoilers for PAST events. You probably shouldn't go browsing internet message boards, or be on the internet in the first place. Watch the UFC fight first, if it's THAT important you see it with no expectations. Of course people are going to be talking about it.


Well now hold on.

In the Sports forum (where one would assume sports conversation takes place) it's safe to assume you can go there without having a fight spoiled. (By the way this pretty much only applies to fights because it's impossible to avoid spoilers in anything else relevant, like the Super Bowl for example, in the real world.) So why should I have to avoid the Shroomery, let alone the internet, if I know the main place sports conversation happens on the Shroomery won't ruin the outcome for me? Should I stay away from Facebook if I have friends that will post about it in their status? Sure. Should I stay away from a UFC message board? Sure. But saying people shouldn't be on the internet if they want to avoid spoilers suggests all of the internet is used for the same thing, which we all know it's not. Message boards unrelated to sports AND with a specific sub-forum dedicated to sports shouldn't have to be something people avoid.

And about the whole "I watch movies for the content...": Sweet. Movies aren't sports. Almost everyone I know questions why I ever watch sports events when I know the outcome. Beyond that even if you watched sports for the content it doesn't matter. Some (most) people watch it for the outcome. This thread isn't about debating why an individual should watch sports.

If it's not easy to implement then cool. I have changed my mind though. I don't see why the spoiler rule in Sports couldn't be copied into the Pub rules and you admit it would be easy and quick to change a title if someone reports it. Why not put it in the rules?


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Re: We need some rules on sporting events [Re: jewunit]
    #12296893 -

I wanted to see if any other mods had any input first. Perhaps I'm alone in my opinions?
Because I'm not the mod to talk to about adding (what I see as) silly rules... I'm usually the one questioning the rules.
If it were completely up to me, the Pub would probably have less of them.

I'm not trying to argue with you guys. Just playing devil's advocate and trying to express my POV from a more pragmatic perspective.
The Pub is a monster, that's why there are 15 mods. No mortal human can keep up.
Frankly I don't even see these UFC spoiler threads run amok in the pub, then again I can't keep up with the 5,000 threads a day. It's already a super rare occurrence, and we need to add it to the rules?

We can add it to the rules, that doesn't mean people are going to read them or follow them. We can try to edit out spoilers in titles but that doesn't mean every mod is going to be cognizant of that 24/7 or know which spoiler is "ruining" it or which is benign. Adding "No spoilers in thread titles" is a very ambiguous rule. Or should we only include sports in that? Or only sports in the past 24 hours? And we need to add this to the pub rules??

Quote:
Message boards unrelated to sports AND with a specific sub-forum dedicated to sports shouldn't have to be something people avoid.


The Pub
A place for laid-back discussion on any topic

Just sayin' is all :shrug:

If Ythan wants to code some crazy spoiler warning blocker script, that's up to him.. but sounds to me like a ton of work? and I'm guessing he's got bigger fish to fry atm.

As for me - I got no problems keeping my eyes peeled for spoilers in thread titles and doing a quick ninja edit but I'm not making any promises of 24/7 satisfaction.

Your best bet is going to probably come from hitting the on offending threads but by then it's probably too late yeah?
Well maybe you saved two other people from the same anguish of possessing the knowledge,

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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