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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11668202 -

It's like a weed labor union. As a liberal, I'm not opposed, people need these jobs, who cares if pot's expensive. If he advocates growing at home the price of marijuana will plunge because it's too easy to grow. A low price isn't good for anybody, even potheads.

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: lazyfingers]
    #11668232 -

lazyfingers said:
A low price isn't good for anybody, even potheads.


Please explain how having a larger portion of my income to spend on consumer goods is bad for the economy.  It seems to me that would stimulate the economy a lot more than having to spend $300 to $800 a month to stay high and having very little extra left over to support the economy as a whole.

All that'll do is force a lot of users to continue breaking the law, growing their own illegally. Taxing something to an extent that the people who consume the most can scarcely afford it is just bad economics.


--------------------
Bufotenine Yopo/Cebil Info | Guide to Hunting/Using Fly Agarics
Good Drug Books
PCPiHKAL|Rhodium

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Freedom]
    #11668267 -

Freedom said:
but even if they only legalize it in a way that makes it expensive and gives big profits to businesses and government, wouldn't this be a move in the right direction?


I have no problem with the taxes going to the government, they need some incentive to get the ball rolling. Fighting to bring those taxes down to a reasonable level can be a battle for tomorrow.

What I have a problem with is a prohibition on growing your own.  Rather than being able to pay your tax to the gov't, you'd have to support the profits of the very same people who want the law to prohibit you from growing your own.  That's the part that I think is fucked up.

The only way that would be different from the current situation is that right now the law subsidizes black market profit margins.  If people like Rich Lee (the proprietor of Oaksterdam) get their way, then the law will subsidize profits for themselves instead.  Call me a lunatic, but I believe in a free market.  With a commodity like cannabis, profits do not need to be subsidized


--------------------
Bufotenine Yopo/Cebil Info | Guide to Hunting/Using Fly Agarics
Good Drug Books
PCPiHKAL|Rhodium

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11668303 -

Wasn't suimush attending there, wonder what that user has to say about

this?

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11668317 -

"please explain why your income wouldn't be better spent on other goods"

Weed is an American product. Spending money on other consumer goods will help wherever those goods come from, probably China. That's fine, but more money here is more money here. It's too bad that guy got fired, but cheap weed isn't a necessity unless you're in excessive pain and really can't afford it. I'd like to see free weed for people too sick to work too, but I can't imagine California is at that stage with their current budget. Somebody will just have to be generous

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: lazyfingers]
    #11668385 -

Seems to me that the only people that prices would affect would be med

patients anyway.  Every pothead I know would be growing their own.

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: lazyfingers]
    #11668393 -

So should domestic beer and cigarettes have their prices equivalently inflated by government regulation? After all, it'd go into the american economy, right?

When the taxes are so exorbitant that the only way to get weed for a fair price would be growing your own, but growing your own is illegal, I see a problem.


--------------------
Bufotenine Yopo/Cebil Info | Guide to Hunting/Using Fly Agarics
Good Drug Books
PCPiHKAL|Rhodium

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Jordanian]
    #11668411 -

Jordanian said:
Seems to me that the only people that prices would affect would be med
patients anyway.  Every pothead I know would be growing their own.


Exactly.  All it'd do is replace an illegal cannabis dealing trade with an illegal cannabis growing trade. Anyone smoking a reasonable amount would still be criminals because they'd have to grow to afford it. It's like a wolf-in-sheeps-clothing brand of prohibition.


--------------------
Bufotenine Yopo/Cebil Info | Guide to Hunting/Using Fly Agarics
Good Drug Books
PCPiHKAL|Rhodium

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11668421 -

Entropymancer said:
Freedom said:
but even if they only legalize it in a way that makes it expensive and gives big profits to businesses and government, wouldn't this be a move in the right direction?


I have no problem with the taxes going to the government, they need some incentive to get the ball rolling. Fighting to bring those taxes down to a reasonable level can be a battle for tomorrow.

What I have a problem with is a prohibition on growing your own.  Rather than being able to pay your tax to the gov't, you'd have to support the profits of the very same people who want the law to prohibit you from growing your own.  That's the part that I think is fucked up.

The only way that would be different from the current situation is that right now the law subsidizes black market profit margins.  If people like Rich Lee (the proprietor of Oaksterdam) get their way, then the law will subsidize profits for themselves instead.  Call me a lunatic, but I believe in a free market.  With a commodity like cannabis, profits do not need to be subsidized


so you're saying that giving money to the businesses would create a moneyed special interest that would lobby for prohibition of growing your own, which would ultimately make it harder to legalize growing your own in the long?

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11668423 -

Entropymancer said:
Freedom said:
but even if they only legalize it in a way that makes it expensive and gives big profits to businesses and government, wouldn't this be a move in the right direction?


I have no problem with the taxes going to the government, they need some incentive to get the ball rolling. Fighting to bring those taxes down to a reasonable level can be a battle for tomorrow.

What I have a problem with is a prohibition on growing your own.  Rather than being able to pay your tax to the gov't, you'd have to support the profits of the very same people who want the law to prohibit you from growing your own.  That's the part that I think is fucked up.

The only way that would be different from the current situation is that right now the law subsidizes black market profit margins.  If people like Rich Lee (the proprietor of Oaksterdam) get their way, then the law will subsidize profits for themselves instead.  Call me a lunatic, but I believe in a free market.  With a commodity like cannabis, profits do not need to be subsidized


I extremely confident that if this bill passed everybody would grow their own. They already do grow their own with medical cards and the vast majority never have to talk to police or show their medical cards while having trees in their backyard. What Oaksterdam did was controversial and fucked up, but this bill is still a step in the right direction. There will inevitably be taxes on Marijuana, think of all the god damn tourism this would bring. That doesn't mean the the citizens of California have to pay them, they can just grow...

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Freedom]
    #11668431 -

Yes, that seems to be the entire basis of the new round of tax®ulate legislation in california that's being sponsored by Oaksterdam and their business partners.


--------------------
Bufotenine Yopo/Cebil Info | Guide to Hunting/Using Fly Agarics
Good Drug Books
PCPiHKAL|Rhodium

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11668434 -

Well then, people who can grow and brew don't have to worry then. But from a business perspective, it's not good to teach people to grow unless you're selling seeds. If you're selling what comes from the seeds and telling them to go buy seeds, then you might want to go start investing in soil and fertilizer.

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: lazyfingers]
    #11668450 -

lazyfingers said:
Well then, people who can grow and brew don't have to worry then. But from a business perspective, it's not good to teach people to grow unless you're selling seeds. If you're selling what comes from the seeds and telling them to go buy seeds, then you might want to go start investing in soil and fertilizer.


Absolutely. But If you're selling what comes from a seed, trying to make it illegal for people to grow the seeds seems more than a touch unethical.


--------------------
Bufotenine Yopo/Cebil Info | Guide to Hunting/Using Fly Agarics
Good Drug Books
PCPiHKAL|Rhodium

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Rebirtha]
    #11668484 -

Rebirtha said:
That doesn't mean the the citizens of California have to pay them, they can just grow...


Not legally, they can't.  That's what pisses me off about their new tax & regulate proposal.

Have you read the initiative? They'd allow 25 square feet for cultivation. That's a total 5 foot by 5 foot space for your grow, your clones, and your mother.  What the fuck kinda yield can you get with that?


--------------------
Bufotenine Yopo/Cebil Info | Guide to Hunting/Using Fly Agarics
Good Drug Books
PCPiHKAL|Rhodium

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11668518 -

entropy can you link something that outlines all this so i can have a

better grasp on whats being discussed, i'm somewhat in that dark on the

subject.

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11668520 -

No one's gonna measure unless you are in trouble with the law. It's legal and illegal, If some cops come over, crowd everything into a 5 by 5 area, no law broken.

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11668523 -

they say that.. but nobody will knock on your door. In humboldt county you can have a 10 x 10 area and people grow acres and acres with no trouble and the police know and couldn't give two shits.. Trust me on this one, this limit won't be enforced and is still a step in the right direction. If this passes the police are going to be thrilled not having to deal with people dealing 40 lbs at a time anymore.. guns, sketchy business, the whole medical marijuana situation which is a run around for police.

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11668718 -

its a joke. their tax cannabis 2010 is all about greed. It doesn't protect the users, infact it does the opposite. All it does is add more regulation and limits to the user. It also allows counties to say if you're allowed to grow, so of course every county but oakland will outlaw it. most places will contiue to discriminate.

its a joke. hes a joke. the whole thing is a joke. and i hope people are dumb enough to vote for it. because you know people will see it as legalization and vote for it.


--------------------
Long live kratom :kratom:

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: Jordanian]
    #11668727 -

Jordanian said:
entropy can you link something that outlines all this so i can have a

better grasp on whats being discussed, i'm somewhat in that dark on the

subject.


http://www.taxcannabis.org/index.php/pages/initiative/


--------------------
Bufotenine Yopo/Cebil Info | Guide to Hunting/Using Fly Agarics
Good Drug Books
PCPiHKAL|Rhodium

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Re: Fuck Oaksterdam [Re: danielx]
    #11668730 -

we already have it pretty sweet imo. Why add more regulations? all we need is a bill to further PROTECT the user not furthur REGULATE the user.


--------------------
Long live kratom :kratom:

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