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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Depression [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #11382620 -

When you are depressed you need to find out what is causing the depression. A drug (other than anti-depr.) will change your mood, not the cause of depression.
Perhaps it is the come-down of the drugs that cause the depression, how could drugs help then?

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Re: Depression [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11382697 -

How did you manage to find out that it is the come-down that causes depression? :lol:
I'm not denying that this isn't the case for you, but this doesn't mean that a come-down will cause depression for eveyone else too.
Besides, it isn't the drug that makes one depressed, but one's own mind and the way one interprets reality, so maybe you mean to say that, in your case, the come-down surfaces the depression you already think and feel, on a less conscious level.

Quote:
When you are depressed you need to find out what is causing the depression. A drug (other than anti-depr.) will change your mood, not the cause of depression.


So, if antidepressants don't change one's mood, why do they exist, and what are they good for?
Also, are you really saying that antidepressants are changing the cause of depression?
What are you saying here?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Depression [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #11382715 -

Why are you depressed? How do you think a drug, other than anti-depr., can cure you? and who says an anti-depr. can cure you?

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Re: Depression [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11382732 -

Who said that a depressed person necessarily wants to take drugs to be cured? Depressed people are still allowed to have fun, you know? Last time I checked drugs were still very very fun.
So, I am asking you again, why isn't it recommended for depressed people to take drugs?
Also, maybe you want to answer the rest of my previous questions too. :grin:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Depression [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #11382774 -

If depression is a deviation from the natural state of your mind. This deviation is brought about by thoughts, feelings and emotions. How can a drug help you find your natural state of mind, when this drug creates what is different from the natural state of mind?

I think anti-depressants bring relief from mental suffering. But they don't cure the depression. It is our state of mind that determines if we are healthy or depressed. However, the anti-depressant may 'help' to get over difficult periods in the depression.

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Re: Depression [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11382846 -

What's the "natural state of mind"? Are you saying that depression is unnatural?
People might not want to accept the state of depression, along with it's meaning, and I think that this is why they feel this need to mystify it by thinking that depression is not natural. This is very false.
Everything that manifests in one's mind is natural, be it pleasant or unpleasant, whether or not it is the result of a thought, drug, or contusion.
I think that one can find a good tool for getting out of depression in just about any drug, since the experience is left to the free interpretation of that person, and how determined they are to turn everything they encounter in their experience into a constructive tool.

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Re: Depression [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #11382882 -

'Natural state of mind' is lucid, clear and awake. An available mind, ready to encounter anything and deal with it reasonably and morally. A mind not preoccupied with thoughts and such. A healthy mind therefore, not obstructed, not biased, settled into itself. However, i don't think it is easy to develop and maintain this 'healthy mind'.

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Re: Depression [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11382918 -

You have weird subjective ideas about what the word natural means.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: Icelander]
    #11382968 -

Icelander said:
You have weird subjective ideas about what the word natural means.


I was trying to describe a mind in its state of 'naturalness'.

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Re: Depression [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11383002 -

Ahimsa said:
Why are you depressed? How do you think a drug, other than anti-depr., can cure you?


http://www.ayahuasca.com/?p=32

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Re: Depression [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11383015 -

Since nature is everything that is then any state of the mind is natural.

You are confusing natural with healthy/unhealthy-skillful/unskillful.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: Icelander]
    #11383046 -

Icelander said:
Since nature is everything that is then any state of the mind is natural.

You are confusing natural with healthy/unhealthy-skillful/unskillful.


Natural state of mind is the mind as it comes 'out of the box'. Mind as mind, not like this or like that, just like mind itself. Free, open, available, clear, ready, aware,... natural condition, ground condition. And indeed that is therefore healthy and skilful. I think we are saying the same thing.
It's probably just the way i use the word 'natural'.

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Re: Depression [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11383060 -

Natural state of mind is the mind as it comes 'out of the box'.

Nobody has a mind like this after two seconds of life.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: Icelander]
    #11383092 -

Icelander said:
Natural state of mind is the mind as it comes 'out of the box'.

Nobody has a mind like this after two seconds of life.:lol:


Wrong. This mind is always like that. It is like the clouds covering the sky. Mind is like that, our thoughts make us forget to look at our mind and recognise its 'natural' clarity. Instead we are looking at our thoughts to find that.

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Re: Depression [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11383100 -

:assimilate:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Depression [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11383124 -

Ahimsa said:
Icelander said:
Natural state of mind is the mind as it comes 'out of the box'.

Nobody has a mind like this after two seconds of life.:lol:


Wrong. This mind is always like that. It is like the clouds covering the sky. Mind is like that, our thoughts make us forget to look at our mind and recognise its 'natural' clarity. Instead we are looking at our thoughts to find that.


Wrong, the mind only can act according to it's nature whether skillful or unskillful. It's not an insect mind and the human mind is capable and does all the things it does naturally. You are creating subjective value judgments and calling that natural. :nono:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: Poid]
    #11383129 -

Poid said:
:assimilate:


What is wrong with saying that to forget your clarity and openness of mind because of predispositions, beliefs, discriminations, and such is a loss of freedom of mind?

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Re: Depression [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11383158 -

Ahimsa said:
Poid said:
:assimilate:


What is wrong with saying that to forget your clarity and openness of mind because of predispositions, beliefs, discriminations, and such is a loss of freedom of mind?

You're not following the "To each their own." rule. :nono:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Depression [Re: Icelander]
    #11383187 -

Quote:
Wrong, the mind only can act according to it's nature whether skillful or unskillful. It's not an insect mind and the human mind is capable and does all the things it does naturally. You are creating subjective value judgments and calling that natural. :nono:


So, in as far that what you describe is the 'reaction' of the mind. Not so, in as far that the mind itself is recognised as lucid and open. Neither skilful nor un-skilful.
Look, i say there is mind, and it is open, clear, ready and free, like space abit. Then there are the reactions of this mind upon what it encounters.
To me the mind itself is 'natural' because it is the way nature created the mind. The reactions of the mind are partly our creations. Of course 'everything' is natural because it all happens within nature, but this mind in its 'unapplied' state is clear and lucid, shining even and aware. That's all i wanted to point out when i addressed the issue of depression being a 'state' of mind different from the 'natural' or 'unapplied' state... you dig?

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Re: Depression [Re: Icelander]
    #11383188 -

Icelander said:
Since nature is everything that is then any state of the mind is natural.


yeah.  it's funny to see how separated people have become from nature (myself included).  nature can bring us closer to nature, and our inner nature.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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