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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: ]
    #1120442 -

What is your rating and which tournaments have you played in?

I'm in Europe. If you mean ELO, I don't have one, just a national rating.

As far as your analysis of psychological tests are concerned I see a little bit of bias. Usually those in the hard sciences are the first to disparage it as belonging to the 'soft' sciences. Is that where you are coming from?

I'm into biology and computer science. Concerning bias, I guess it's an empirical observation that there are hard sciences and soft sciences, the latter being characterized by the fact that they don't work. If social sciences were science at all, we would spawn out better societies the same rate we build better computers. The existence of mental health facilities is a hint that psychology is a soft science. Another hint is that the most powerful instruments for psychological investigation are illegal, and most psychologists don't even care.

How do you explain psychological profiling?

First I'll claim that it doesn't work. Then I'll ask what it is, because I don't have a fucking clue.

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: Nomad]
    #1120612 -

Ah, spoken as a true mastermind! :wink:  The Eternal Pragmatist.

I understand where you are coming from.  Karl Popper provides a helpful 'analysis' of various 'therapies' in his book, Conjectures and Refutations  The Growth of Scientific Knowledge.

Whatever the prescribed therapy for a particular behavioral problem may be and whether it works or not is beside the point.  A medical doctor can diagnose AIDS but may be unable to cure it.  Does that mean that medical science is 'soft' as well?  Do not let your particular field blind you to the fact that diagnostic tests, psychological diagnostic tests, are used by the courts, the government, and industry because they are able to screen out unstable types from areas where it would be a catastrophe to have them there.

Here in the US we use the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) for such testing.  And I can assure you, it works most of the time.

That seems to have struck a nerve.  Do you know why? 

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: ]
    #1121249 -

You are right. Psychology is cool.  :smirk:

That seems to have struck a nerve. Do you know why?

Sure, because it was 3.00 in the morning.  :laugh:

No, wait...

I'm sure you noticed it, and this is in no way meant offensive towards f8l, who posted it, but: "Masterminds approach reality as they would a giant chess board, always seeking strategies that have a high payoff". That's an appeal to the ego. I bet that nine from ten human males would agree that this fits their personality.

On the other hand, that whole personality test is essentially an ego game, so who cares...

The only thing which interests me about my personality is how to get rid of it as soon as possible.


     

Edited by Nomad (12/08/02 01:29 AM)

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: Nomad]
    #1121652 -

Don't misunderstand me. I am not saying that "psychology is cool" I am saying that under certain circumstances it is useful and that the authorities deem it so for good reasons.

Perhaps the appellation 'mastermind' is a play for the ego but the former title was "scientist" which in my case is even more appropriate. Perhaps that just coincidence. I took the test when it was called that approx. 10 years ago. I have read the other "cold readings" and many of them did not fit me at all and had I been given that "cold reading" I would have suspected there was something wrong with the test. A portion of the test relies on answers that define a person as either an introvert or an extrovert. Are you saying we can make no distinction between those two types of people? I think that assumption flys in the face of reason.

You also seem to indicate that the 'mastermind' fits the male psyche more than it does the female. Is not that some kind of differentiation in itself?

I am not trying to convince you that psychology is a hard science. I am aware of its flaws. But that does not make me dismiss out of hand the times when it is useful.

Cheers,

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: mariasabina]
    #1122601 -

My Lady and I are both INTP's.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1122623 -

An INFP is going to extravert intuition and intravert feeling, which means that one primarily perceives the outer world intuitively, but feeling dominates one's inner world. An INFJ is going to extravert feeling, and appear to be a 'feeling' person by others, but intuition will govern the inner world. The 'P' type of introvert is always going to extravert the 'auxilliary' function, which is 'N,' while the 'J' type will extravert the dominant function, which is 'F' in this case.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: mariasabina]
    #1122631 -

i am a teacher... ENFJ...


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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: mariasabina]
    #1122650 -

I've been cursed with INTP  :tongue: 

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1123054 -

I've taken the test a few times and i vary between INFP and INTP. This leads me to beleive i'm a rounded balance betweent the two. It's difficult to say because my thoughts influence my feelings, while at the same time my feelings influence my thoughts. I think the test needs more questions for determining these qualities.


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: ]
    #1123251 -

Why do you feel cursed? One can work on bringing the inferior feeling function up to speed, and the sensate function as well, in order to balance the personality. I feel blessed, in the latter stage of life, to be an INTP. It was tough being an introvert during adolescence, but the introverts have a much better time of it during the second half of life when inner-directed is 'where it's at.' I can extravert at a party, while giving a workshop or in front of a class of 11 year olds or adults (E); I can build rustic furniture, lay in a sprinkler system, or decorate with style (S); I can express my feelings ['X' helped tremendously here] (F); and I can be decisive, whereas I used to procrastinate (J). Getting through graduate school taught me that it was easier to work, than to worry about the work. BTW, my grad assistantship, under the only Jungian analyst in Maryland at the time, entailed giving and hand-scoring about 1000 MBTI's.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1123367 -

It can get pretty bad when I'm in the middle of a club or party and catch myself analyzing people's behavior or counting the ceiling tiles.  :confused: :wink: All my life I've been trying to change my personality to be more outgoing and feeling-oriented, and I can say I've come a long way. What I really want is that balance you describe, so I can be comfortable doing anything, either alone or with people, or analyzing or expressing my feelings. I've noticed that years ago when I wasn't consciously working towards changing my behavior I lapsed back into my natural INTP tendencies. But as you grow older you grow more carefree, so these days it's much easier for me to snap into my extroverted alter-ego. Just gimme 10 seconds and a telephone booth!  :grin:

I'm still working on that making decisions thing, though! :grin: 

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: ]
    #1123417 -

I am INTP also.

Heh... I took the test, skipped a couple of questions,  and it came out INTJ. The description said : "To outsiders, INTJs may appear to project an aura of "definiteness", of self-confidence--".  I stopped Immediately at self-confidence and answered the questions i skipped. Then it came out with the description of INTP and I was like 'this is more like it...'. 

Perhaps i should beat my chest a little more, eh! :tongue: :tongue: 


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focusing
Flow
The Enneagram

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: ]
    #1123420 -

But as you grow older you grow more carefree

I hope this is true. :grin: 


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focusing
Flow
The Enneagram

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: ]
    #1123870 -

I have read the other "cold readings" and many of them did not fit me at all and had I been given that "cold reading" I would have suspected there was something wrong with the test.

Oh, come on. Did you read the other cold readings before you were appointed a scientist? If not, the point is so obvious that I needn't state it.

I'm easy to disprove, however. Make a study where you show a person all the profiles and let him choose which he can identify the most with. Then let him take the test. But no one ever did that, right?

A portion of the test relies on answers that define a person as either an introvert or an extrovert. Are you saying we can make no distinction between those two types of people?

That portion of the test could possibly work. However, the cold reading makes a point which is true for all humans: "At times you are extroverted, affable, sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary and reserved."

You also seem to indicate that the 'mastermind' fits the male psyche more than it does the female.

No, I said that because I'm a male and therefore know about the male ego. It could be true for females or Pleiadians, too, but since I'm neither a female, nor a Pleiadian, I do not know.

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: Nomad]
    #1124320 -

Oh, come on. Did you read the other cold readings before you were appointed a scientist? If not, the point is so obvious that I needn't state it.

Oh, come on.  As the type of person who analyses data did you think I would not have read the different readings before I took the test?  I have the book.

I'm easy to disprove, however. Make a study where you show a person all the profiles and let him choose which he can identify the most with. Then let him take the test. But no one ever did that, right?

That's a simple enough hypothesis to test.  I actually have someone interested in taking it.  Of course if they guess which one that would be pretty good because it is a multiple choice question with 16 different answers.


However, the cold reading makes a point which is true for all humans: "At times you are extroverted, affable, sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary and reserved."

I understand how the cold reading works but certain people are not "at times extroverted, affable, sociable" and neither are certain other people at times "introverted, wary, and reserved."  There are people who answer all 10 questions on that part of the test and end up at the extreme end.  I am one of those.  10 out of 10 on the introverted portion.

No, I said that because I'm a male and therefore know about the male ego.

Male EGO?  Now who is getting all psychological?  :grin:

The point is that diagnostic tests work whether you think they do or not.  I don't intend to quibble about matters like that with anyone who thinks contrarily and wants to argue for argument's sake.  I have much better things to do with my time.

Enjoy our forum! :smile:

Cheers,


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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: ]
    #1129236 -

Oh, come on. As the type of person who analyses data did you think I would not have read the different readings before I took the test? I have the book.

Oh, well done. You score.  :laugh:

Now, here's my story. What I said before - that I abandoned the test after answering the first 32 questions - was only half-truth. I didn't abandon it, I just answered the other questions randomly and went to see the result. I was appointed a  Healer, and the accuracy of that profile was purely astonishing. Then I remembered cutting off half the questions, decided it was crap, and did something different. Ten minutes later I became nervous, answered all 72 questions, and, naturally enough, became a Healer again. It was only then that I noticed the ego trap...

"Healers have a profound sense of idealism derived from a strong personal morality, and they conceive of the world as an ethical, honorable place. Indeed, to understand Healers, we must understand their idealism as almost boundless and selfless, inspiring them to make extraordinary sacrifices for someone or something they believe in."

Um, yeah. That's me. In a personal fantasy.

That's a simple enough hypothesis to test. I actually have someone interested in taking it. Of course if they guess which one that would be pretty good because it is a multiple choice question with 16 different answers.

Yes, go for it. I will predict a 1:8 chance, since I agree with you that the distinction between introvert and extrovert is accurate and easy to make. Still, a correct guess would be astonishing. Let me know the result.

And now to something completely different...  :cool:

Even if the test was accurate, it would still be useless. It's really not about me thinking it's crap, or you thinking it's not crap, or Meyers Briggs thinking whatever. It's about people making a lot of money with this test. That web page, for example, someone mentioned earlier, charging money for the test. That's astounding, because, why would someone pay money for being told that they are a Healer? One would suppose that a Healer knows damn fucking well by himself that he is a Healer. And (back on topic!) someone able to do ESP should be able to recognize that without actually being told by a web page. But, then again, being a healer could mean something different... i mean... imagine...

"Welcome, Nomad. Your personality type is INFP. This means that you should pursue the traditional path of the Native American Healer. You will have to lead a life in isolation from other human beings in order to maintain your balance between heaven and earth. As a next step, you should prepare to travel down into the shaman underworld, where you will meet your deepest fear. You will experience in full realism being ripped to pieces by hungry ghosts. After that, you will be put together anew and have the power to heal. (...)"

No, no, no, no. People are not interested in being that kind of Healer. People don't want to actually heal, they just want to be told that they are Healers. So they can relax and spend the rest of their life watching Healers on TV. The real ones.

Likewise, being a mastermind, you would have to plot some real evil plans for world domination, which is a lot of work.  Not that I'd doubt your capacities...  :laugh:

Male EGO? Now who is getting all psychological?

Random thought of the day: The fallacy of psychology is to heal the ego instead of killing it. While healing the ego diminishes short-time suffering, it leads to excessive long-time suffering, even on a global scale. Psychology needs to heal the ego, because psychology works hand-in-hand with capitalism, and capitalism is a social system built on the ego. Those who need to be locked away, because they threaten capitalism, yet have not committed a legal crime - they fill our mental health facilities.

One wonders how we managed to deal with such a terrible illness like schizophrenia before the age of ego? Why... we made them our shamans.

I don't intend to quibble about matters like that with anyone who thinks contrarily and wants to argue for argument's sake. I have much better things to do with my time.

You would be surprised at how often I hear that. It must be painful to argue with someone who doesn't believe in the concept of truth. I feel with you.

However, the solution is as simple as it is beautiful. Just don't reply anymore.

Just don't hit that reply button.

But, damn, it's hard, isn't it?  :laugh:

             

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: Nomad]
    #1130349 -

Last point first.  As far as hitting the reply button is concerned it is extremely easy for me to ignore people.  That is predicated on two distinctly different things.

1.  Foolishness.  I do not suffer fools and neither will I be drawn into their drama.  The fools and I are happier that way and that's the way we like it. :smile:

2. Meanness.  Same reason as above.

Of course as a Moderator I do need to explain my actions when performing a Mod task.  And I will address someone if I think they are better than a recent action.

------------------------------------------------

So, why am I replying to you then, you might ask?

That's easy.  I do not perceive either attribute in you.

Now I understand why you have the opinion that you do.  It makes perfectly good sense.  In other words it aligns with reason.  And that is all I ever ask.

I will take you up on your proposal and let you know how the test turns out.  I think that's a great idea.

When I was referring to diagnostic tests I wasn't referring to that one anyway.  I was referring to the MMPI II which is used successfully in the courts and industry.  It is a 500+ question barometer that can determine if a person is mentally unstable.  It can tell if you are faking the anwers too.  The results are fed into a computer program for analysis.  The test might not be perfect but it has pragmatic value.

Lastly, "It must be painful to argue with someone who doesn't believe in the concept of truth. I feel with you."

I am not sure what you are referring to here but if you are intimating that truth, as a concept, does not exist we will have some interesting dialogue on the future as long as you are reasonable, i.e. not a fool or mean.  If the day comes that those monsters raise their ugly head our dialogue will vanish like a mist before the burning sun.

Cheers, 

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: Nomad]
    #1130586 -

People don't want to actually heal, they just want to be told that they are Healers. So they can relax and spend the rest of their life watching Healers on TV. The real ones.

Real healers on T.V.?  I hope your refering to tapings of actual surgery or documentary/news on medical doctors.  Not  the John Edwards type "healers", if it's that type you are referring too, I lol at you. :grin:


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: Nomad]
    #1130609 -

One wonders how we managed to deal with such a terrible illness like schizophrenia before the age of ego? Why... we made them our shamans.

Holy crap, I'm saving that quote.  :laugh: 


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: myers briggs and the supernatural [Re: ]
    #1130877 -

I've faked the MMPI to arrive at certain outcomes needed in a particular situation (getting a job). But then, I know how it works. However, it did turn out that I was tempermentally unsuited for the positions for which I 'cheated.' In the short term, it paid the bills, but I am of the opinion that the test is valid if you're not someone like me (who knows how to manipulate the results).


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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