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Offlinepurified
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Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 201
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
placebo question
    #11308518 - 10/23/09 10:15 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

is it illegal for a doctor to give you a placebo drug without your knowledge?


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OfflineIndubitably
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Registered: 10/20/09
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Re: placebo question [Re: purified]
    #11308534 - 10/23/09 10:18 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Yes


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: placebo question [Re: purified]
    #11308535 - 10/23/09 10:18 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

maybe, maybe not. Depends on the circumstances.
What happened?


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?


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OfflineMorgenstern
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Re: placebo question [Re: purified]
    #11308805 - 10/23/09 11:17 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

purified said:
a doctor to give you a placebo drug without your knowledge?




Wait, isn't that the whole point of it?

:lol:


--------------------
We're a second in time,
We're the last in the line,
Of the prey that walks the earth





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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 12,139
Re: placebo question [Re: Morgenstern]
    #11308893 - 10/23/09 11:39 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Definitely.

Even in a controlled scientific study (in which you're aware you may receive placebo) there are regulations that you wouldn't believe.  It's a little thing called "informed consent", on top of HIPAA regulations.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: placebo question [Re: badchad]
    #11308982 - 10/24/09 12:03 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

it's not illegal, placebos are given to hypochondriacs frequently


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OfflineSnape
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Registered: 08/05/03
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Loc: Montreal, Quebec
Last seen: 3 years, 28 days
Re: placebo question [Re: Morgenstern]
    #11309057 - 10/24/09 12:19 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mataspore said:
Quote:

purified said:
a doctor to give you a placebo drug without your knowledge?




Wait, isn't that the whole point of it?

:lol:





LOL


--------------------
I'm floating in the sea of stars,
I'm drifting away from the shore
I will be lost in the dream when the dark days come
But I will make the time run backwards and
I'll make the stars shine again


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: placebo question [Re: purified]
    #11312496 - 10/24/09 04:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I believe that all anti-depressants may be placebos. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleSalomon
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Registered: 01/17/09
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Re: placebo question [Re: Poid]
    #11312544 - 10/24/09 04:35 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I believe that all anti-depressants may be placebos. :shrug:



this^^^^


--------------------
EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT



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InvisiblePoid
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Re: placebo question [Re: Salomon]
    #11312848 - 10/24/09 05:24 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I was on Zoloft and Wellbutrin for about half a year, and didn't feel shit.


IMO, if you need to take multiple daily doses of a "drug" every day for two weeks or more until the effects of said "drug" kick in, it ain't no fuckin' drug!

:macdre:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleP-O
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Registered: 05/13/09
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Re: placebo question [Re: Poid]
    #11312879 - 10/24/09 05:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

ya pharmys are garbage....

except for maybe the "pain pills"!


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 12,139
Re: placebo question [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11312890 - 10/24/09 05:30 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
it's not illegal, placebos are given to hypochondriacs frequently





Let me rephrase.  The use of placebos (in uninformed patients) is forbidden by American Medical Association.

You are correct, in that besides the official position of the AMA, I'm not aware of the legal aspects involved with prescribing placebos.  However, I would imagine that any law firm would have a field day in a medical malpractice suit if a patient were harmed due to receiving a placebo (especially if they weren't informed of it).


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


Edited by badchad (10/24/09 05:34 PM)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: placebo question [Re: P-O]
    #11312897 - 10/24/09 05:30 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I'm only against SSRI's, since they apparently seem to merely be just placebos. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 12,139
Re: placebo question [Re: Poid]
    #11312927 - 10/24/09 05:35 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I'm only against SSRI's, since they apparently seem to merely be just placebos. :shrug:




So how would you explain all the clinical trials where SSRI's outperform placebo?


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: placebo question [Re: badchad]
    #11312952 - 10/24/09 05:38 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I'm saying that SSRI's are placebos; sometimes placebos work, and sometimes they don't.

Maybe the study is just a coincidence. :shrug:


Also, it's interesting to note that the old Zoloft commercials were banned because their business pitch (that depression is caused by an imbalance in neuro-chemicals) was scientifically unsubstantiated. :wink:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: placebo question [Re: badchad]
    #11314298 - 10/24/09 09:35 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
So how would you explain all the clinical trials where SSRI's outperform placebo?




Semi-related: I once saw pharm company data on a statin trial. Their product showed a dramatic decrease in bad cholesterol.
But the placebo showed a decrease of 6% in bad cholesterol. Six percent.

We should all be taking placebos.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?


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InvisibleUnholyChild666
I'M GOD
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Re: placebo question [Re: Indubitably]
    #11314808 - 10/24/09 10:51 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indubitably said:
Yes



:lol: It wouldn't be a placebo if they told you


--------------------



"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth


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InvisibleUnholyChild666
I'M GOD
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Re: placebo question [Re: Poid]
    #11314817 - 10/24/09 10:52 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

:lol: It wouldn't be a placebo if they told you
Quote:

Poid said:
I believe that all anti-depressants may be placebos. :shrug:




if that was true people couldn't test positive for them


--------------------



"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: placebo question [Re: UnholyChild666]
    #11324462 - 10/26/09 03:26 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

UnholyChild666 said:
:lol: It wouldn't be a placebo if they told you
Quote:

Poid said:
I believe that all anti-depressants may be placebos. :shrug:




if that was true people couldn't test positive for them


I'm sure they all contain some sort of chemical. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleUnholyChild666
I'M GOD
Male
Registered: 03/26/06
Posts: 8,940
Loc: Flag
Re: placebo question [Re: Poid]
    #11327219 - 10/26/09 10:00 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

UnholyChild666 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
I believe that all anti-depressants may be placebos. :shrug:




if that was true people couldn't test positive for them


I'm sure they all contain some sort of chemical. :shrug:




There are usually just sugar


--------------------



"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth


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