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-A rather pressing question-
    #1764191 -

My friend proposed this question to me last night and he kept pestering me about it-

So, you're traveling in a plane and you see a fly flying around in the cabin and it lands on your arm. Does the plane weigh more after the fly landed on your arm?


I kept telling him to fuck off because he didn't define the question well enough, but I'd like some insight from the rest of the world. And don't just tell me to fuck off because I didn't do a good job defining the question.


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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: igore]
    #1764214 -


Edited by Xibalba (09/30/05 12:28 AM)

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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: Xibalba]
    #1764229 -

Good answer! Good answer!

But assuming that the fuel is factored out of the equation, then yes. The plane then weighs more.


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1764746 -

No, the plane weighs the same. The fly is generating down-thrust when it's in the air, and that down-thrust is being exerted against the floor of the plane, pushing it down.


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"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.

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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: igore]
    #1764836 -

Sev is right. Fly landing makes no difference.

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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: Sev]
    #1765146 -

Correct, I believe that the plane weighs the same.


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The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!


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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: igore]
    #1765271 -

The plane weighs EXACTLY the same whether 1 fly or 10,000 flies land.

The weight of the plane wouldn't change if 10 elephants climbed aboard.

It's the weight of the cargo (flies, elephants, people) that would change.



Quote:
And don't just tell me to fuck off because I didn't do a good job defining the question.


So fuck off because you didn't do a very good job defining the question)
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: igore]
    #1765328 -

The plane would weigh the same because it is a closed environment. When the doors were sealed everything inside became part of total mass of the plane.

If you were sat on the deck of a ship and a seagull shit on your head, then the total weight of the ship would increase.


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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: Jackal]
    #1765355 -

I don't think so.

He asked specifically if the weight of the PLANE would change
Short of bolting or welding on bits and/or pieces, or removing pieces, the weight of the plane would not change.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1765413 -

Isn't that what I said. The weight of the plane wouldn't change.

Only by adding external components from outside of the plane could you increase the weight.


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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: Jackal]
    #1765421 -

Jackal said:
Isn't that what I said. The weight of the plane wouldn't change.

Only by adding external components from outside of the plane could you increase the weight.

That's not how I took this....
"The plane would weigh the same because it is a closed environment. When the doors were sealed everything inside became part of total mass of the plane."

I think that "When the doors were sealed everything inside became part of total mass IN the plane.

Not OF the plane.

As the fly is not attached to, or a component of, the plane.... the weight of the plane did not change.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1765485 -

Everything within the confines of the closed system contribute to its total weight.


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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: Jackal]
    #1765487 -

I agree.

However, the original question was not whether the total weight would increase but would the PLANE weigh more.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1765495 -

:smile:


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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: Jackal]
    #1765500 -

:wink:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1766831 -

So the weight of the fly is added to the total weight of the planes even while the fly is in flight. This is because this is a closed system. So if the plane is on the tarmac and the fly comes in through the open dooris that weight added as the fly crosses the threshold of the door?

How about a closed plane in a dive. The passengers are free falling. Is there weight still added to the plane in this closed system?


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1766861 -

Forgetting for a moment that the closed system post was not mine, (I guess you asked me because I said I agree in a previous post)

no and no.

You are correct though that in those two situations there would be no change in the total weight for one and a change for the other. Good call.

However, the weight of their shit as they crap themselves would add no matter which way it fell, or flew.

Assuming of course that it was ejected with enough force to not just float and that all the passengers were naked.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: igore]
    #1766900 -

I think the plane would weigh more. Even though the plane was sealed with everything inside the fly is in the air and his weight is not a factor until he lands. It would be the same if the fly was flying outside the plane and landed on it. The fly has no contact with the plane directly or indirectly so although he has mass it cannot be transfered to the plane so it does not matter. When the fly lands on your arm it exerts a force on it and because you are in contact with the plane it would add to the weight of the plane.

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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1766928 -

actually I am going to disagree with no answer. The weight of the passengers in free fall is not added in that closed system, and I postulate that while a fly is flying its weight is not added either. I say this because it is the vacuum above the wings of the fly that provides lift (just like the plane itself). The weight is not translated to the floor via the air. The fly is essentially in free fall but by using its wings to create friction as the air tries to move from the bottom to the top of the wing it is able to remain aloft.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

Edited by mntlfngrs (07/31/03 05:12 PM)

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Re: -A rather pressing question- [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1766935 -

Ummmm, I agreed with you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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