Chronic777 said:

maybe stop trying to alter your mindstate

meditation isnt trying to fit into some great mindstate, its to stop trying to do that...

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Poptart said:

Now that I am familiar with how my mind works I understand how it makes connections and tries to put the peices together and how delusional it can become.

When trying to overcome fear is it best to just ignore it? should I try and play it out rationally in my mind and realize it is just a delusion? Or should I just relax and follow my breath? Does paying attention to fears feed them and make them stronger? Or does ignoring them and pretending they are not their just make them worse?

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Well first of, you can intelligently see both sides of it, so theres not much you have to 'do' really...

Does ignoring the fear remove the fear?
Or does ignoring it just supress it further?

Does paying attention to the fear just feed it more?
Or does paying attention to the fear root it out?

It can possibly be all of the above... so id say, first of all establish what the fear is about? Something real or imaginary?

Isit just an imagined sensation appearing, then more imagination jumps into bed with it & calls it 'fear' then you hit the panic button & try to get rid of it, which amplifies the whole situation further.... often its like this, way blown out of proportion.

You see, if you make a big deal about it you are already giving it a reality it doesn't even have without your participation, so first of all, don't participate, then approach it gently... what is the fear about?.. something actually there to be fearful about?


When you see it is just the mind & not about any actual danger then you can competely see through it, you dont have to ignore, reject or probe further into it, looking like this you can even welcome it, say 'Bring It On!' and just observe...


All you ever need is your own Awareness



So really, its to pay attention to it to the extent you need to see through it, then you naturally ignore it...

Chronic777 said:

Poptart said:

Now that I am familiar with how my mind works I understand how it makes connections and tries to put the peices together and how delusional it can become.

When trying to overcome fear is it best to just ignore it? should I try and play it out rationally in my mind and realize it is just a delusion? Or should I just relax and follow my breath? Does paying attention to fears feed them and make them stronger? Or does ignoring them and pretending they are not their just make them worse?

---

Well first of, you can intelligently see both sides of it, so theres not much you have to 'do' really...

Does ignoring the fear remove the fear?
Or does ignoring it just supress it further?

Does paying attention to the fear just feed it more?
Or does paying attention to the fear root it out?

It can possibly be all of the above... so id say, first of all establish what the fear is about? Something real or imaginary?

Isit just an imagined sensation appearing, then more imagination jumps into bed with it & calls it 'fear' then you hit the panic button & try to get rid of it, which amplifies the whole situation further.... often its like this, way blown out of proportion.

You see, if you make a big deal about it you are already giving it a reality it doesn't even have without your participation, so first of all, don't participate, then approach it gently... what is the fear about?.. something actually there to be fearful about?


When you see it is just the mind & not about any actual danger then you can competely see through it, you dont have to ignore, reject or probe further into it, looking like this you can even welcome it, say 'Bring It On!' and just observe...


All you ever need is your own Awareness



So really, its to pay attention to it to the extent you need to see through it, then you naturally ignore it...

---

Poptart said:

I think I really knew that I just needed to hear someone else say it.

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Thats always the way when we're dealing with Self knowledge (meditation)

We already know all of existence as we are existence, we have just forgotten ourselves through knowing so many things that are irrelevant to our existence

Poptart said:

I was also wondering if you were familiar with carl jung and the shadow.

How does one go about doing shadow work? Or does it just surface naturally in meditation?

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im not really into learning about psychology
im not tryna cut a deal with the mind for freedom

theres not alot we need to do to be perfectly happy & go beyond the mental BS
simply stop buying into it, shadows & all...


i know that everything surfaces naturally in meditation

guruu said:

As far as being paranoid when you smoke, meditating and doing yoga before hand probably just psyche you out a little bit and make it seem like a big deal.  Smoking isn't supposed to be any big thing at all, so you should treat it that way.

Also, I've heard that Kundalini and Tantra yoga are best practiced with instruction, i.e. you're sort of playing with fire.

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Chronic777 said:

i certainly agree that weed & meditation can be incredible

but still maintain that meditating while totally sober is unsurpassable

the natural state is what is sought after
natural state being the key word, not induced state

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guruu said:

Well, I was under the assumption that you were smoking weed because it's enjoyable.  Maybe you should try eating some Doritos next time you get high.  They taste better!

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Poptart said:

Chronic777 said:

i certainly agree that weed & meditation can be incredible

but still maintain that meditating while totally sober is unsurpassable

the natural state is what is sought after
natural state being the key word, not induced state

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I usually practice sober meditation for an hour each day. Half an hour in the morning and half an hour at night. I also do about a half hour of yoga.

I only smoke once a week usually every sunday and I use it to go deeper into my meditations and to understand how cannabis affects my mind.

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Thats sounds excellent, i toked everyday for years, im having a long break at the mo, but what your doing (once a week while meditating) sounds like what id come back to if i did smoke again...

Chronic777 said:

Poptart said:

Chronic777 said:

i certainly agree that weed & meditation can be incredible

but still maintain that meditating while totally sober is unsurpassable

the natural state is what is sought after
natural state being the key word, not induced state

---

I usually practice sober meditation for an hour each day. Half an hour in the morning and half an hour at night. I also do about a half hour of yoga.

I only smoke once a week usually every sunday and I use it to go deeper into my meditations and to understand how cannabis affects my mind.

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Thats sounds excellent, i toked everyday for years, im having a long break at the mo, but what your doing (once a week while meditating) sounds like what id come back to if i did smoke again...

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Diaboleros said:

I'm also into meditation and I do it alot. The key when you get stuck is to investigate paradoxes. Do the opposite of what your mind tells you, and you get unstuck.. tada.. I call it flipping the coin.... To be able to meditate totally sober, you need to stop eating for a few days as food has a huge effect on your body and mind, even a bigger effect than weed in my experience.

Also, you need to understand the concept of duality if you want to get into meditation. Meditate on how there is no good without evil. God  created the devil, so the devil must be necessairy in the plans of God. Many mental problems, if not all mental problems, are solved this way.

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Poptart said:

guruu said:

Well, I was under the assumption that you were smoking weed because it's enjoyable.  Maybe you should try eating some Doritos next time you get high.  They taste better!

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How did I give you that impression? I will admit I like the effects of weed but that is not the sole reason why I smoke it.

Most people who smoke weed or do drugs in general for enjoyment aren't really into meditation because that's when it holds up the ugly mirror and they see the things they don't want to see.

Don't get me wrong though I have had my fair share of using weed for recreation as a stoner but it got me no where and I ended up in a deep depression.

I still love weed and find it enjoyable but the joy I derive from it comes from the insights I have from it and the progress I've made.

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I smoke weed like 3-4 times a week (I would smoke more but I'm low on cash ).  But anyways, I actually enjoy weed a million times more now that I meditate.  I've had so many freaky paranoid experiences when high that after a while I conditioned myself to always go into that mindset when high.  But now that I meditate I can center myself almost at will and enjoy my high and just be in the moment.  I am very serious about meditation, but I'm not going to abandon recreational drug use.  As far as I can tell, that would just be my ego controlling me in a subtler way, telling me "Look how much better than the average stoner you are!  You don't need weed anymore, you have...meditation." Haha, seriously though, in my opinion it's best just to maintain a healthy meditation practice and let desires fall away naturally.

I hope that made sense I kinda went off on a tangent