Home | Community | Message Board


FreeSpores.com
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Arete
    #11174644 - 10/03/09 02:17 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I have low regard for specialization and thus low regard for modern culture. Initially it was a shock to me to find an "expert" in a subject I was interested in often was a total klutz in most other aspects of life. Without a pathological (read total)reliance on culture this "expert" would soon be buzzard bait.

But what is lost IMO is far greater than just staying alive. It's experience, and self reliance and especially excellence. Sadly, we all suffer from this and most will never know what "disease" they have.  There really is no use to complain however as it's a sign of the  times.

One of the results of my intense fixation on my death anxiety is a realization that sometimes life may not always be worth living. Or as Veritas sez, "survival is overrated". Once one realizes that this life in not actually a preference one can take a more philosophical outlook toward death. But this realization is not an intellectual exercise but one of a gut level awakening bought at a great price in suffering. And then it's only part of a process. At least this is how it has worked out for me.

Can you grok what I'm saying?

"Arete implies a respect for the wholeness or oneness of life, and a consequent dislike of specialization. It implies a contempt for efficiency -- or rather a much higher idea of efficiency, an efficiency which exists not in one department of life but in life itself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
You are under arrest!
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 44,590
Loc: Urban Jungle
Re: Arete [Re: Icelander]
    #11174668 - 10/03/09 02:24 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Without a pathological (read total)reliance on culture this "expert" would soon be buzzard bait.




Buzzards are specialization experts, are they not?


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
You are under arrest!
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 44,590
Loc: Urban Jungle
Re: Arete [Re: Icelander]
    #11174678 - 10/03/09 02:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Or as Veritas sez, "survival is overrated".




She may be planning a 'surprise' for you. Tread carefully... :shiftyeyes:


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Arete [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11174687 - 10/03/09 02:28 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Without a pathological (read total)reliance on culture this "expert" would soon be buzzard bait.




Buzzards are specialization experts, are they not?




no they even eat dead humans (not picky) and can insure their own survival. But I'm talking about humans here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Arete [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11174696 - 10/03/09 02:29 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

She is the sole heir to my vast fortune.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
You are under arrest!
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 44,590
Loc: Urban Jungle
Re: Arete [Re: Icelander]
    #11174749 - 10/03/09 02:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Uh oh! :lipsrsealed:


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Arete [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11174753 - 10/03/09 02:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

once I'm gone she can retire and live a carefree life like old Ice.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 1,963
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
Re: Arete [Re: Icelander]
    #11175224 - 10/03/09 04:03 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

One of the results of my intense fixation on my death anxiety is a realization that sometimes life may not always be worth living. Or as Veritas sez, "survival is overrated". Once one realizes that this life in not actually a preference one can take a more philosophical outlook toward death. But this realization is not an intellectual exercise but one of a gut level awakening bought at a great price in suffering. And then it's only part of a process. At least this is how it has worked out for me.




Such is the thrownness of this existence; none of us asked nor had the choice to be [here], and especially not for this finite life that is bound simply to end. Yet through the terror we find things to live for, and we invest ourselves deeply enough into the experience that the terror of losing the things we've made important to us may almost surmount the terror of our death.

Sometimes I wonder if the truest misery in your life is the incapability to triumph your death anxieties and take your own life.
And then sometimes I wonder if that is mine as well.

Quote:

Can you grok what I'm saying?




And how. :heart:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Arete [Re: Tropism]
    #11175612 - 10/03/09 05:09 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Sometimes I wonder if the truest misery in your life is the incapability to triumph your death anxieties and take your own life.
And then sometimes I wonder if that is mine as well.


Gee I wait and wait for responses like these. That's a pretty interesting question and their may be some real truth to it. Overriding survival instincts can be very difficult indeed. I admit to fascination with suicides. I would like to get inside their heads to see what's really going on. As in, do they really grok that they might be completely disappearing for good or do they some how believe in some sort of convoluted continuation in some afterlife? I'm pretty sure I'm temporary and as good as dead now. There's a part of me that craves life (immortality) and then the part that can see that life as it actually is is a wash. I grew up on fairy tales and those programs run deep. Lately however I don't feel so afraid of leaving all this for good. But it's hard to know what that means. I'm never beyond some kind of fooling myself with mental gymnastics if you know what I mean.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Arete [Re: Tropism]
    #11175619 - 10/03/09 05:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

btw I am making plans for a final exit just in case. I want the means at hand if I ever need it. I've made a fairly in depth study.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecyb3rtr0n
searching for truth
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 1,794
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Arete [Re: Icelander]
    #11175629 - 10/03/09 05:12 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

takin' the easy way out huh??


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Arete [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11175648 - 10/03/09 05:16 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

What the fuck are you talking about? Not that you would have any idea about that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecyb3rtr0n
searching for truth
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 1,794
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Arete [Re: Icelander]
    #11175699 - 10/03/09 05:25 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You're right...  I don't because I've never once considered an "exit plan", even while looking down a barrel of a pistol pointing at my head by a crackhead as I entered my car.


suicide is a cowardly action.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
You are under arrest!
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 44,590
Loc: Urban Jungle
Re: Arete [Re: Tropism]
    #11175706 - 10/03/09 05:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

none of us asked nor had the choice to be [here],




One fine 'day' I was 'floating' in The Void and said, "I wish I could be!" And here I yam.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 1,963
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
Re: Arete [Re: Icelander]
    #11175773 - 10/03/09 05:37 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

There's a part of me that craves life (immortality) and then the part that can see that life as it actually is is a wash.I grew up on fairy tales and those programs run deep. Lately however I don't feel so afraid of leaving all this for good. But it's hard to know what that means. I'm never beyond some kind of fooling myself with mental gymnastics if you know what I mean.




I do, and sometimes it seems that I only exists to trick itself in some kind cyclic game of charades. The desire for immortality is entirely present, yet still death can be a relieving reminder that I won't have to spend an eternity with myself, 'cause that would certainly drive me mad. :tongue:

Quote:

btw I am making plans for a final exit just in case. I want the means at hand if I ever need it. I've made a fairly in depth study.




What are your possible plans? I've been quite intersted in the idea of being the one to take my own life, if dying is inevitable I'd rather use what little power I have to try and make it as comfortable as possible, one final desperate assertion of what little control I have over my own life.

Still though the cat's curiousity on where it might go and how it might end leaves me waiting.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Arete [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11175789 - 10/03/09 05:39 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cyb3rtr0n said:
You're right...  I don't because I've never once considered an "exit plan", even while looking down a barrel of a pistol pointing at my head by a crackhead as I entered my car.


suicide is a cowardly action.




Oh boy aren't you brave. I've been on the receiving end of several guns. But please tell me what that has to do with killing oneself?

Killing oneself can be a act of great bravery. I don't have the guts for it so far.  If I had a painful degenerative disease I would surely end it as an act of mercy to myself.

I find your superior self righteous attitude disgusting to say the least.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecyb3rtr0n
searching for truth
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 1,794
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Arete [Re: Icelander]
    #11175874 - 10/03/09 05:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I find your "exit plan" to be... well, cowardly...:shrug:

I guess were both misunderstood.  I'm not afraid to admit it, are you?


please tell me, what final solution will your particular suicide prove?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Arete [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11176533 - 10/03/09 08:08 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

and I find your position to be ignorant:shrug:

I don't believe I have misunderstood anything here but I'm not surprised you have.

I never said I will surely kill myself but under the conditions that life no longer provides me satisfaction or becomes extremely painful I see no point in continuing and hope to have the courage for it. The courage to override all my "cowardly" (fear based) survival instincts and guilt trips implanted by ignorant cultural programming (like religion)

Most people IMO who live on and on with no hope and in extreme pain or confusion (like my mother did) and try to "survive" under any circumstances are the cowards if anyone is. The fear of death and the dissolution of their personality structure. It doesn't surprise me that some one young and ignorant of how painful life can become would make, IMO, statements of such extreme folly.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecyb3rtr0n
searching for truth
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 1,794
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Arete [Re: Icelander]
    #11177122 - 10/03/09 10:18 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
and I find your position to be ignorant:shrug:

I don't believe I have misunderstood anything here but I'm not surprised you have.

I never said I will surely kill myself but under the conditions that life no longer provides me satisfaction or becomes extremely painful I see no point in continuing and hope to have the courage for it. The courage to override all my "cowardly" (fear based) survival instincts and guilt trips implanted by ignorant cultural programming (like religion)

Most people IMO who live on and on with no hope and in extreme pain or confusion (like my mother did) and try to "survive" under any circumstances are the cowards if anyone is. The fear of death and the dissolution of their personality structure. It doesn't surprise me that some one young and ignorant of how painful life can become would make, IMO, statements of such extreme folly.:shrug:





the focus needs to go on ridding that guilt.  Then the alternative plan will not even be an option one would consider.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Arete [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11177225 - 10/03/09 10:33 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Bull shit. If I was in extreme pain from cancer or slipping into dementia I would want a way out and guilt would not play into it.

Guilt is one part of a complex issue. Of course once guilt free then one is free to choose life or death based more in reality. Choosing to live or die is not that important considering we all die anyway. IMO only those with severe unconscious death anxiety care who chooses what. It's a completely personal choice and neither good nor bad, right or wrong. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Even more about icelander's enlightenment (and the economy too)
( 1 2 all )
redgreenvines 3,263 23 03/21/09 12:35 PM
by OrgoneConclusion
* The web of confusion and the spider of mundane reality world Dogomush 1,660 12 08/13/03 01:57 AM
by Dogomush
* A Spider On the Wall vigilant_mind 914 8 04/17/07 01:13 PM
by Icelander
* when you find a spider in your house...
( 1 2 3 4 all )
deranger 4,271 68 09/29/08 01:51 AM
by deranger
* Why are people inherently petrified of spiders?
( 1 2 3 all )
JH05 3,105 56 07/02/08 10:08 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* On The Way To Iceland
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Huehuecoyotl 5,400 71 06/26/06 02:18 PM
by BlueCoyote
* Icelander's latest mindfuck
( 1 2 all )
crunchytoast 1,523 20 06/24/05 12:16 AM
by TrippinNinjaBuddha
* 4/20 and Icelander's birthday
( 1 2 3 all )
OrgoneConclusion 2,243 49 04/21/09 02:15 PM
by Icelander

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
1,208 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Kratom Eye
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.049 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 21 queries.