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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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absolutes and extremes
#6152653 - 10/09/06 11:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Im seeing way too many threads that are pure babble tied together with polarized extremes.
I dont want to call any people out personally, but if you skim most of the last 20 threads you will see what I am talking about.
Im not saying extremes arent useful, but some of you need to stop with the esoteric, extreme duality.
ill concede though that maybe it is my harsh skepticism of such statements as "I am everything, I am nothing"... type crap.
It is overly vague and those posts usually have no real content.
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Telepylus
Babyman
Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 996
Loc: Seattle
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lol
what exactly is your point? this is a thread complaining about threads sucking
you think that pointing out your posting etiquette lesson is really going to change anything? the idea that you even think that is totally funny. then you go on to mention some overly vague post with no real content and this is a supreme example of that, only it's a thread, lol
the thoughts which dribbled out of your brain i order to make this thread, should've just remained there.
i think what you're trying to say is "contribute something valuable or shut the fuck up"
so take your own advice and set the example
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mungojerry
free as a bird
Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Nappy Dub
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sry
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mungojerry
free as a bird
Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Nappy Dub
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: mungojerry]
#6152747 - 10/10/06 12:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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would it make it feel better if I poured everything i had into a thread
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slaphappy
Its just me
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 1,188
Loc: Norway, Eidsvoll, Råholt...
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Telepylus]
#6152748 - 10/10/06 12:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Telepylus said: lol
what exactly is your point? this is a thread complaining about threads sucking
you think that pointing out your posting etiquette lesson is really going to change anything? the idea that you even think that is totally funny. then you go on to mention some overly vague post with no real content and this is a supreme example of that, only it's a thread, lol
the thoughts which dribbled out of your brain i order to make this thread, should've just remained there.
i think what you're trying to say is "contribute something valuable or shut the fuck up"
so take your own advice and set the example
SLAPHAPPY SECONDS: Enjoy.
-------------------- The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Telepylus]
#6152761 - 10/10/06 12:24 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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well, it was a two part.
One part was to open discussion about the futility of speaking and thinking in extremes and absolutes.
The second part was merely my opinion on the subject, which was that it was fluff, spewed only to make one appear deep and spiritual/philosophical.
So... actually, since you are so dead set on flaming me, you must have felt insulted in some way, or atleast partly guilty of the topic at hand.
If you felt that this thread was so hollow, and pointless, then why did you feel the need to add even more useless and pointless material to it?
Cant you just go somewhere else and make another "praise be unto him" thread? and leave the philosophy to the philosophers. I try not to bother you in your delusional world of borderline MRP threads... so maybe you can go somewhere else and be ignorant there.
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Amethyst
Stranger
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Philosophy is a path from the NOWHERE to the NOTHING, so of course its full of endless dualistic extremes.....Regardless of it being directly pointless, its great exercise for the mind, I love it.
-------------------- "That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."
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mungojerry
free as a bird
Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Nappy Dub
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can i hold ur hand?
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: mungojerry]
#6152845 - 10/10/06 01:10 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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always mungo, and never.
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Paramemetic
Emergent
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I do have to say, I tend to agree. The "I am everything, I am nothing" stuff becomes tedious, especially as it's ultimately non-falsifiable. But challenging the concept of absolutes? You may want to narrow your scope. Not that I support any kind of absolutism, but it's a rather broad subject to attack out of hand.
-------------------- "Reality is that which doesn't go away when you stop believing in it." - N. Bohr "The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." - Tao Te Ching, 48
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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One part was to open discussion about the futility of speaking and thinking in extremes and absolutes.
Dude, you cannot expect people to think otherwise if that is their mindset and programming. Your "logic" will not sink in whatsoever until they have a emotional realization of the futility of following any unworkable path.
So quit complaining and be glad you are "rational".
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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One only can find balance, if one knows about the extremes. Simple as that. As we are obviously not 'nothing' and obviously not 'everything' we have to be something between. That is, what is the question with those kind of topics.
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Telepylus
Babyman
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: BlueCoyote]
#6154500 - 10/10/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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yea i agree too i am everything, i am nothing is silly poetry that doesn't help anyone.
but, absolutes and extremes are beautiful forms of communication- that is what music is that is what everything true and splendid is
i don't see how it is possible to learn without recognizing absolutes and extremes.
men cannot give birth to infants because they have no womb- that is an absolute truth, and displays the extremities of male/female. to hide from that, or to call it futile, makes no sense to me.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
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Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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For the "I am everything, I am nothing" statements, either the people have nothing worthwhile to say, or, less likely, they're visiting the Shroomery on high doses of LSD that have warped their brains so much that meaningless statements actually begin to reflect the true nature of reality. Either way, they're not communicating anything to anyone besides themselves.
In reality, there are no absolutes or extremes. Existence is not extreme, but rather extreme is a label of certain states of existence that are perfectly natural and universal.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Telepylus
Babyman
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Ravus]
#6154666 - 10/10/06 03:06 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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of course there are absolutes and extremes, and that is what builds existence and reality. it just depends on what dimensional levels your working with.
the singularity, duality, and trinity are absolute forces which build mathematics, geometry, and consciousness.
in the singularity there are no extremes because there is only ONEness. as soon as you enter duality(the world) everything is split into male/female positive/negative light/dark, good/bad. and these are extremes- sure, they are illusionary when viewed from the singularity. but while we are in the world, they most certainly are very real and tangible to us- and absolutes in the equations of transmuting variables.
every once and awhile a person can eat LSD, and start writing some stream of consciousness crap like "i am everything" and it's actually very beautiful and enlightening- this is rare, but it happens.
personally i'd rather enjoy reading some acidheads garbled vision of unity over some malconent skeptic who refuses to see past his own nose, and rather than trying to produce something insightful himself instead attempts to point out the inevitable flaws in all psuedo-sciences.
and i guess the point is, instead of talking about what is stupid or wrong, try to focus on what is smart and right, and build upon that.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Ravus]
#6154715 - 10/10/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said: For the "I am everything, I am nothing" statements, either the people have nothing worthwhile to say, or, less likely, they're visiting the Shroomery on high doses of LSD that have warped their brains so much that meaningless statements actually begin to reflect the true nature of reality. Either way, they're not communicating anything to anyone besides themselves.
In reality, there are no absolutes or extremes. Existence is not extreme, but rather extreme is a label of certain states of existence that are perfectly natural and universal.
You must be refering to me. I can realate to feeling connected to everything and also sensing the illusory nature of the so called self.
Saying one is everything and nothing is a vain attempt to comprehend the Tao or the limitless void. Everyone gives it a shot at some point I guess. There is nothing wrong with that.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Ravus]
#6154898 - 10/10/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said: Either way, they're not communicating anything to anyone besides themselves.
This is what I was getting at.
Many of you think that I am being an asshole and very un-PLUR, but what is the difference between many of you pointing this out and me pointing out that some threads are so vague and meaningless because they only contain absolutes? If I am guilty of this, then all of you whom have posted this opinion are guilty..... kind of like breaking the law to enforce the law.
I just think posts like "I am everything, I am nothing" is vapid blather... but that is just one assholes opinion. I dont find any merit or philosophical/spiritual substance, not even enough of a point to make a huge stretch to come to some already cognited understanding. I dont believe that I am the judge of such things, or the drawer of substantial lines in regards to P&S, i was merely making an observation and pointing out something that I felt this collective doesn't need.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I felt this collective doesn't need.
You are Borg I'm guessing.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Ravus]
#6155975 - 10/10/06 08:28 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said: In reality, there are no absolutes or extremes.
Except for that absolute statement you just made.
--------------------
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Icelander]
#6155976 - 10/10/06 08:28 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Ravus said: For the "I am everything, I am nothing" statements, either the people have nothing worthwhile to say, or, less likely, they're visiting the Shroomery on high doses of LSD that have warped their brains so much that meaningless statements actually begin to reflect the true nature of reality. Either way, they're not communicating anything to anyone besides themselves.
In reality, there are no absolutes or extremes. Existence is not extreme, but rather extreme is a label of certain states of existence that are perfectly natural and universal.
You must be refering to me. I can realate to feeling connected to everything and also sensing the illusory nature of the so called self.
Saying one is everything and nothing is a vain attempt to comprehend the Tao or the limitless void. Everyone gives it a shot at some point I guess. There is nothing wrong with that.
Actually, I wasn't referring to any specific person. I've seen many people write posts like that, and I've spoken to a lot of people in real life who like to rattle off gibberish. In real life, I simply try to force them to delve into the basis and root of their statements. Most people I'm content if you can extract a single drop of logic from an entire forest of beliefs and thoughts that don't make any sense, that don't seem to logically fit together. I think a lot of people mistaken for spirituality simply have a dysfunction in their neurons that causes their mind to mistake imaginary gaps in knowledge for open territory in insisting the truth for their fantastic bridges of faith.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Silversoul]
#6155987 - 10/10/06 08:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Ravus said: In reality, there are no absolutes or extremes.
Except for that absolute statement you just made.
I said, "in reality", not absolutely. I'm sure in non-real places existence can take an absolute or extreme setting.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Amethyst
Stranger
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Ravus]
#6156976 - 10/11/06 02:07 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Another good point to make is the English language starts to fail when diving into the depths of philosophy. It seems all to often we get caught up in the words more than the concept......
-------------------- "That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Ravus]
#6157623 - 10/11/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Ravus said: For the "I am everything, I am nothing" statements, either the people have nothing worthwhile to say, or, less likely, they're visiting the Shroomery on high doses of LSD that have warped their brains so much that meaningless statements actually begin to reflect the true nature of reality. Either way, they're not communicating anything to anyone besides themselves.
In reality, there are no absolutes or extremes. Existence is not extreme, but rather extreme is a label of certain states of existence that are perfectly natural and universal.
You must be refering to me. I can realate to feeling connected to everything and also sensing the illusory nature of the so called self.
Saying one is everything and nothing is a vain attempt to comprehend the Tao or the limitless void. Everyone gives it a shot at some point I guess. There is nothing wrong with that.
Actually, I wasn't referring to any specific person. I've seen many people write posts like that, and I've spoken to a lot of people in real life who like to rattle off gibberish. In real life, I simply try to force them to delve into the basis and root of their statements. Most people I'm content if you can extract a single drop of logic from an entire forest of beliefs and thoughts that don't make any sense, that don't seem to logically fit together. I think a lot of people mistaken for spirituality simply have a dysfunction in their neurons that causes their mind to mistake imaginary gaps in knowledge for open territory in insisting the truth for their fantastic bridges of faith.
Everyone thinks irrationally, some are just a little better at it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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landsnorkler
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 3,047
Loc: Montana
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Amethyst]
#6157749 - 10/11/06 11:19 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Amethyst, you make a good point. People are trying to get their feelings across, and it is hard to do with the English language. Psilo, why do you read threads that piss you off? Why do you get emotional, and angry about them? That is exactly what a baby would do if he did not get his way.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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who said I am getting emotional and angry?
just because i refuse to self-censor?
what is more child like? experiencing that which you may not agree with/enjoy? or not burying your head in the sand and experiencing/being open to all there is?
Do you not get out of bed some days because you know there are going to be parts of the day you dont like?
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Ravus]
#6159201 - 10/11/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said: For the "I am everything, I am nothing" statements, either the people have nothing worthwhile to say, or, less likely, they're visiting the Shroomery on high doses of LSD that have warped their brains so much that meaningless statements actually begin to reflect the true nature of reality.
I have had those posts, and always will. Even looking back at my previous philosophy, I sometimes wonder what was going through my mind at the time. Then I trip and find out again!
The thing is, those wholistic experiences, that do not have to be drug-induced, and are just experiences of transcendece, cannot have a rational explanation. It just hits you like a lighting bolt, that connection to everyone and everything. You cant explain it to someone who hasn't experienced it, because it is not a rational experience. It is the experience of God, and explaining what God is would only define your beliefs into boundaries that dont exist in the first place. It is the root, the seed, the axiom. It is accepted because there is no explanation.
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: Im seeing way too many threads that are pure babble tied together with polarized extremes.
I dont want to call any people out personally, but if you skim most of the last 20 threads you will see what I am talking about.
Im not saying extremes arent useful, but some of you need to stop with the esoteric, extreme duality.
ill concede though that maybe it is my harsh skepticism of such statements as "I am everything, I am nothing"... type crap.
This life is ruled by absolutes. What you have in life is defined as something that cannot be anything else. If your car is red, then your car is red. Your car cannot be red and black at the same time. It can be red with black stripes, but then it will be red with black stripes, which in itself will be an absolute.
As far as the you are everything/nothing threads go - that implies the exact converse. Being everything means that you CAN BE EVERYTHING, a range of infinity, being the abstract and not the absolute.
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SneezingPenis
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Fospher]
#6159384 - 10/11/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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there is a huge difference between Present Isness and absolutes.
Your car can be red, then it IS red, but it is not absolutely red... meaning that it impossible to infer whether or not that the car will forever be red, or has always been red.
Using absolutes claims that there is no change. If there is only absolutes in this world, then there is no change.
I also have issue with the esoteric quality of such explanations as yours which accompany justification of "I am everything, i am nothing". Im not in anyway trying to have a contest to see who has licked the face of God the most or the hardest, but in my thousands of trips and all gradients of intensity, I have never had the notion or cognition of "i am everything, I am nothing", nor have I ever claimed "we are all one" (because, doesn't we denote more than one? unless you are a queen?). That isn't to say I havent pondered such ideas, in hopes of understanding what the fuck it is some of you are speaking so vaguely about.... but in the end, I believe it to be another version of the emporers new clothes.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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out of two, pick the third.
EDIT: not related to the ongoing discussion in particular.
--------------------
Edited by AlteredAgain (10/11/06 06:45 PM)
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: Your car can be red, then it IS red, but it is not absolutely red...
No, it is not a matter whether a car can or cannot be something. If it is, then it is, and it is not anything else. Does this contradict change? If a car rusts, then you can say a certain counterpart is rusted or corroded, that in itself implying the new state. The main crux of this mindset is that there are no contradictions. If a changed to b, then b is no longer a.
Quote:
I also have issue with the esoteric quality of such explanations as yours which accompany justification of "I am everything, i am nothing". Im not in anyway trying to have a contest to see who has licked the face of God the most or the hardest, but in my thousands of trips and all gradients of intensity, I have never had the notion or cognition of "i am everything, I am nothing", nor have I ever claimed "we are all one" (because, doesn't we denote more than one? unless you are a queen?).
Absence of evidence does not imply evidence of absence. It just means that you haven't experienced it. That moment of 'Istigkeit', the is-ness, you see existence shining with it's own inner light, quievering under the pressure and significance under which it was charged. You experience the core, the divine source of all existence. I don't think that can ever be fully explained.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Fospher]
#6159639 - 10/11/06 08:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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absolute does not equal "Is". How can you sit here and defend the thesis of absolute duality herein known as "I am everything, I am nothing" and claim that something either IS this, or it Is that?
how many things which are absolute can you experience? besides vodka, i cant think of anything. Sure you can imagine what Absolute Zero would be and look like, and maybe in your mind you can experience such things, but in reality, everything falls just short of absolutes in both directions.
Of course you can think and imagine the concept of absolute duality, and maybe even come to believe that you have experienced it, but you cannot ever actually do it. What is the difference between saying "i am everything" and "everything is purple"?
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Telepylus
Babyman
Registered: 05/22/06
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Mod edit:
1) No flaming. If you can't state your case or refute someone else's case without calling him/her "stupid" or an "idiot" don't bother posting here. This forum is for intelligent discussion, not for belittling someone who holds differing opinions. This rule will be strictly enforced. If you have been warned already you will receive a temporary ban, if you continue to flame you will be banned permanently. Choose your words wisely or suffer the consequences.
Edited by Annom (10/12/06 08:10 AM)
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
Registered: 02/09/05
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Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: absolute does not equal "Is". How can you sit here and defend the thesis of absolute duality herein known as "I am everything, I am nothing" and claim that something either IS this, or it Is that?
1. I can argue whatever I please. I dont always believe in what I argue, often I have alterior reasons. I might do it to better understand the opposite side of the fence. I might do it to generate a response, to probe information by challenging the other's belief. I might do it to challenge the argument, to question the moral precepts of the one arguing. Or, perhaps my argument goes farther than you currently see it, and indeed those two points do not contradict.
Do you believe that a red is not a red? That you can define your own car's color just by wishing it? Please notify me once you have the power to paint by thought, I might have a business proposal.
Now, as I have said before, there are no contradictions. The point of irrationality is what all rationality is built upon. It is like this in Math, in Logic, in Reality. In geometry, everything is built upon logic. Links connecting the substeps of rational analysis. If a is b and b is c, then a = c. For example, a triangle is three lines, forming together so the angles make up 180 degrees. A line is the shortest path from one point to another. But what is a point? Euclidian Geometry accepts it as an axiom, a 'thing' that has only position, but no further definition. It is not proved and is an initial necessary consensus for the theory building or acceptation.
So just like in Euclidian Geometry, a point is the core, so is the Mystical experience in Reality. It is the divine core of all existence, it is where everything comes from, the connection of all and none. It is the seed from which the tree is planted. The tree, the tree of life, follows logic at every corner, but the seed, the axiom on which it is built on, cannot be explained.
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Telepylus]
#6160012 - 10/11/06 09:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Telepylus said: can you write a complete sentence that applies to Spirituality or Philosophy? if so, please do it, or shut the fuck up
At least he can write a complete sentence in general.
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Amethyst
Stranger
Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 132
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Fospher]
#6160020 - 10/11/06 09:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fospher said: The thing is, those wholistic experiences, that do not have to be drug-induced, and are just experiences of transcendece, cannot have a rational explanation. It just hits you like a lighting bolt, that connection to everyone and everything. You cant explain it to someone who hasn't experienced it, because it is not a rational experience. It is the experience of God, and explaining what God is would only define your beliefs into boundaries that dont exist in the first place. It is the root, the seed, the axiom. It is accepted because there is no explanation.
wow I agree, well said That also goes for all direct human experiences, how can one ever explain a human experience of any kind on any level? It's hard enough to even understand the people we love the most.
-------------------- "That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."
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Maitereya
bohemian
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Amethyst]
#6160283 - 10/11/06 10:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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i am everything and i am nothing.
i dont know where this came from, its likley some zen koan or some westernized misunderstood statement to sound evolved.
but heres my explanation for those who care. god is the highest plane, material is the lowest. so god saying i am everything, that includes god and material and everything in between. i am nothing means that god doesnt exist in space time, so therefore god is nothing.
hope that helps, if it doesnt then read fosphers post, quoted above.
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TameMe
Stranger
Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 2,734
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Maitereya]
#6160307 - 10/11/06 10:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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what is nothing?
it doesn't make much sense to me to put "is" or "am" in front of the word nothing.
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Telepylus
Babyman
Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 996
Loc: Seattle
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: TameMe]
#6160330 - 10/11/06 10:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fospher- i'm notifying you to let you know that i do paint with thought. and i can prove it to you. so i may be interested in your business proposal.
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landsnorkler
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 3,047
Loc: Montana
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Ravus]
#6160581 - 10/12/06 12:07 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Psilo, you are a goddamn mosquito, but I love ya.
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
Registered: 02/09/05
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Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Telepylus]
#6160660 - 10/12/06 12:36 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thought without action? Alright then, lets put Maaco out of business with telekinesis.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Telepylus]
#6160724 - 10/12/06 01:13 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Telepylus said: there are alot of absolute shitheads and extreme dumbasses
case in point
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i think it's funny you are calling them out when you are a classic example, evident in 95% of your posts
examples please?
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what the fuck is this demon baby head stickman jacking off about? that avatar is absolutely repugnant and extremely annoying.
ok... it is batboy, masturbating. It has nothing to do with this thread, except your mission to argue only in ad hominems and flames. Your point?
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can you write a complete sentence that applies to Spirituality or Philosophy? if so, please do it, or shut the fuck up
lets compare the amount of 50+ replies in all the P&S threads I have made compared to all the P&S thread you have made....
Also, im pretty sure the phrase "shut the fuck up", when directed towards another member is a flame, which is a bannable offense. i don't really care that you flamed me, but I would ask for the sake of agreed upon rules within this forum that you stick to the given guidelines for proper communication.
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SneezingPenis
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Fospher]
#6160742 - 10/12/06 01:23 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fospher said:
1. I can argue whatever I please. I dont always believe in what I argue, often I have alterior reasons. I might do it to better understand the opposite side of the fence. I might do it to generate a response, to probe information by challenging the other's belief. I might do it to challenge the argument, to question the moral precepts of the one arguing. Or, perhaps my argument goes farther than you currently see it, and indeed those two points do not contradict.
I agree with this. I do it often, but these two points are contradicting. According to you, you are either nothing, or everything, and the belief in absolutes cannot sustain duality. When I do argue for the sake of argument and alternative viewpoints, I make sure not to contradict myself, and especially dont feel the need to make a pre-emptive strike towards shutting down a rebuttal which obviously points out that flaw.
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Do you believe that a red is not a red? That you can define your own car's color just by wishing it? Please notify me once you have the power to paint by thought, I might have a business proposal.
once again, present isness is not the same thing as absolute. Besides, thinking that there is only monochrome is quite narrow minded. The whole "is a zebra white with black stripes or black with white stripes" is somewhat of a Koan, because it is neither, striped is also a state or aesthetic, percievable quality. This argument you present is rooted in subjectivity... a subjectivity you refuse to look outside of (unless this is another controlled folly on your part). If the car were absolute red, that would mean that every single particle, which would have to cover every single part of the car, would have to be a uniform density of the vague description "Red", which I doubt any car (except in THEORY: remember that?) could claim.
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Now, as I have said before, there are no contradictions. The point of irrationality is what all rationality is built upon. It is like this in Math, in Logic, in Reality. In geometry, everything is built upon logic. Links connecting the substeps of rational analysis. If a is b and b is c, then a = c. For example, a triangle is three lines, forming together so the angles make up 180 degrees. A line is the shortest path from one point to another. But what is a point? Euclidian Geometry accepts it as an axiom, a 'thing' that has only position, but no further definition. It is not proved and is an initial necessary consensus for the theory building or acceptation.
So just like in Euclidian Geometry, a point is the core, so is the Mystical experience in Reality. It is the divine core of all existence, it is where everything comes from, the connection of all and none. It is the seed from which the tree is planted. The tree, the tree of life, follows logic at every corner, but the seed, the axiom on which it is built on, cannot be explained.
what bearing does this have on the conversation at hand? also, if you would like to get into math, how about a more "on topic" concept such as... absolute values? show me objective negative distance if you want to continue with this silly defense of absolute duality.
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shroom_me
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Telepylus]
#6162964 - 10/12/06 05:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Telepylus said: of course there are absolutes and extremes, and that is what builds existence and reality. it just depends on what dimensional levels your working with.
the singularity, duality, and trinity are absolute forces which build mathematics, geometry, and consciousness.
in the singularity there are no extremes because there is only ONEness. as soon as you enter duality(the world) everything is split into male/female positive/negative light/dark, good/bad. and these are extremes- sure, they are illusionary when viewed from the singularity. but while we are in the world, they most certainly are very real and tangible to us- and absolutes in the equations of transmuting variables.
every once and awhile a person can eat LSD, and start writing some stream of consciousness crap like "i am everything" and it's actually very beautiful and enlightening- this is rare, but it happens.
personally i'd rather enjoy reading some acidheads garbled vision of unity over some malconent skeptic who refuses to see past his own nose, and rather than trying to produce something insightful himself instead attempts to point out the inevitable flaws in all psuedo-sciences.
and i guess the point is, instead of talking about what is stupid or wrong, try to focus on what is smart and right, and build upon that.
Exactly..
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
Registered: 02/09/05
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: I agree with this. I do it often, but these two points are contradicting. According to you, you are either nothing, or everything, and the belief in absolutes cannot sustain duality. When I do argue for the sake of argument and alternative viewpoints, I make sure not to contradict myself, and especially dont feel the need to make a pre-emptive strike towards shutting down a rebuttal which obviously points out that flaw.
When playing devil's advocate, the true intent will eventually come out in future retorts. It is not what you truly believe in, so at one point or another, you will have to contradict yourself. This is not the case in this thread.
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...once again, present isness is not the same thing as absolute. Besides, thinking that there is only monochrome is quite narrow minded. The whole "is a zebra white with black stripes or black with white stripes" is somewhat of a Koan...
Does it matter which way you put it then since both constitute the same meaning? The zebra is striped, is it not? If it was an issue of it being polka dotted, or checkered, your case would have merit. But black on white or white on black both constitute the same state.
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If the car were absolute red, that would mean that every single particle, which would have to cover every single part of the car, would have to be a uniform density of the vague description "Red", which I doubt any car (except in THEORY: remember that?) could claim.
Then why use any descriptive term to begin with? The only way to achieve this state is in a perfect virtual computer reality. By defining reality, we set form to existence. If someone would ask you to describe the color of the Corvette, what would you say?
We accept this state as an absolute because the deviation of the color of particles is unpragmatic to differentiate.
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what bearing does this have on the conversation at hand? also, if you would like to get into math, how about a more "on topic" concept such as... absolute values?
I would explain the link, but I think it would do us both better if you actually read it.
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show me objective negative distance if you want to continue with this silly defense of absolute duality.
Is this your rebuttal to my allusion? Because that really doesnt have to do with any aspect of this discussion. Distance only covers non-negative reals.
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SneezingPenis
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: Fospher]
#6163048 - 10/12/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fospher said:
When playing devil's advocate, the true intent will eventually come out in future retorts. It is not what you truly believe in, so at one point or another, you will have to contradict yourself. This is not the case in this thread.
you dont have to contradict yourself to play devils advocate.... and by constantly repeating that there is no contradiction doesn't make it so, I have made my point regarding this yet all you can say is "Nu uh".
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Then why use any descriptive term to begin with?
i dont have an issue with descriptive terms, I have issue with claiming that description is absolute. I just dont see your logic here.
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The only way to achieve this state is in a perfect virtual computer reality.
that is my point. Absolutes only exist in virtual realities like your head, a computer, and theories.
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By defining reality, we set form to existence. If someone would ask you to describe the color of the Corvette, what would you say?
I would call it red, just not absolute red.
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We accept this state as an absolute because the deviation of the color of particles is unpragmatic to differentiate.
I think you need to go read the definition of pragmatic.... because once again, you have contradicted yourself.... and this time it was within one sentence. The corvette gives the illusion of being absolutely red, when in reality it is not.
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I would explain the link, but I think it would do us both better if you actually read it.
silly me... of course! it all makes sense now... triangles = absolutes.... it makes so much sense now /sarcasm.
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Is this your rebuttal to my allusion? Because that really doesnt have to do with any aspect of this discussion. Distance only covers non-negative reals.
I would explain the link, but I think it would do us both better if you actually read it.
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slaphappy
Its just me
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Isn't this flaming the whole forum?
If you don't like absolutes and extremes, I dunno, perhaps "spirituality and philosophy" isn't up your alley.
Perhaps I'm just too used to Nietzsche, but I think being overly vague is a trait reserved for the critics, and not for the philosophers. Of course we say "maybe" and "perhaps" and throw in absolutely nothing and everything and love and energy and the lot, but thats pretty much what we like to discuss. If you are looking for more practical advice or middle-sized ideas like McKenna so nicely put it, perhaps you should try inputting your own, and then recheck the feedback you're getting...because this is the most absolute and extreme thread about absolutely nothing I have ever seen.
It can't get more vague than the statement that other people are vague.
Imho.
-------------------- The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.
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SneezingPenis
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Re: absolutes and extremes [Re: slaphappy]
#6166140 - 10/13/06 02:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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How would this thread be flaming? it is making an opinionated statement about the forum, and was also presented in a philosophical way.
I dont see how you think this thread is about nothing... unless you have only read the last few posts, but there has been discussion about it.
I find it funny that so many people are somewhat offended by this thread, and feel the need to attack me and the thread citing things such as lack of philosophical content... yet stop there, and add only derailing and vindictive comments... when in fact there is something philosophical that has developed from the original post.
Like I have said before, if I am guilty of this, then every single one of you are just as guilty of it due to your replies.
what is vague about this thread anyway? I cant think of anything more vague than calling something vague without citing reason for that opinion.... atleast I did that.
Also, maybe if you stay around a little longer you will see that I am a very active member in this particular forum.... I have started over 100 threads, and 3x more posts in this forum than you have in total. Please dont talk about input and content like that when my stats prove you dead wrong.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
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I do not think it is necessarily agansit the intentions of the forum to discuss topics within the forum in such a manner, especially if some great philosophical and spiritual discussion results from doing so. Reviewing the original post itself, I think the fact that it is too vauge prevents any real discussion of the point that was intended to be discussed. You refer to a general "esoteric, extreme duality", but that doesn't exactly clarify what you are talking about. The fact that it does not address any specific person themselves is essential.
Overall, this thread almost seems to be a classic lesson from the Swami textbook. All of the right ingredients are in place, and it is something that not only reflects on the original post, but some of the contributions that resulted.
I'm not so sure that this particular approach to proposing a topic for discussion is the most effective.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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SneezingPenis
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probably not, but I have no doubt that the point of my thread has been understood.... maybe not agreed with though.
Also, how is it vague when the phrase in question was quoted? I have seen more than one person say that phrase in here, as well as many other absolute dualities.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: probably not, but I have no doubt that the point of my thread has been understood.... maybe not agreed with though.
Perhaps they understand the position you have taken on some matter, but I'm not so sure that it is clear that your position is reflective of the reality of what you are referring to. It is hard to discern as it exists more as a strawman than as a representation of certain posts and what they contain. I understand your conclusion, but am not sure if it is valid because I have no clue what the conclusion stems from. In that way, it is rather vauge.
Quote:
Also, how is it vague when the phrase in question was quoted? I have seen more than one person say that phrase in here, as well as many other absolute dualities.
Well, certainly, some discussion has resulted pertaining to the phrase, but I'm simply stating that it is rather unclear what the phrase was utilized in response to. You were proposing an analysis of posts in this forum in a general manner, and I find it vauge, as I am not sure what posts are being referred to, or, if it was intended to be a general analysis not associated with any particular thread, what relevance or grounding it has.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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SneezingPenis
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maybe it could have been better stated as "i think the overly-esoteric threads which seem to prey on hopes of being mysteriously profound have no substance and are teh poo".
I think my possible vagueness was stemming from an attempt to curb my cynicism and assholeness.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: maybe it could have been better stated as "i think the overly-esoteric threads which seem to prey on hopes of being mysteriously profound have no substance and are teh poo".
I think my possible vagueness was stemming from an attempt to curb my cynicism and assholeness.
I think it might be one of those things that should be left for each individual to contemplate on their own (their judgement on whether or not others' threads have content), instead of something that is discussed within the forum. It always seems to lead to trouble...
I mean, hell, if something doesn't clearly violate the rules and offers some philosophical and spiritual content to discuss, then by all means, as long as the discussion is productive and doesn't continue to veer towards that first condition. It just feels as though we should be discussing something, instead of one's general judgement on something that exists within the thread itself as more of a strawman than anything of substance.
These are just the thoughts that I'm contemplating at the moment, certainly not completely representative of any official stance or anything. Just stoned as hell and interacting with some ideas.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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ok... well here is the culmination of the entire thread:
do you think this thread had more content than a "I am everything, I am nothing " thread?
was this thread helpful? damaging? or basically nullified itself?
Maybe this entire thread was a real time explanation of the uselessness of vague threads.......
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Maybe this entire thread was a real time explanation of the uselessness of vague threads.......
Took the words right out o my mouth.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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If that was the culmination, that means I can lock it, right?
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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fine by me.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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This thread has been closed.
Reason: Was only joking, but I think we feel that this thread has attained its purpose.
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