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need electrical help with 400w ballast
    #11033607 -

as a long time user of this site i hope to get some good info, because a friend actually posted this on grasscity and got no help.

basically a friend got a 400watt HID lamp with a 1000watt bulb for free to flower a single large plant. This is a link to the exact light http://www.mcgillelectrical.com/CatalogProducts.asp?nProductsID=77

my question is: what types of bulbs can fit on this specific fixture? It says its HID, but does that mean any HID light thats 400watts will work? If he get a high pressure sodium 400watt bulb will that work? Or would he have to install an ignitor for the hps...he doesnt want to alter it because its borrowed.

and the guy he borrowed it from insists the 1000w bulb will work fine..

any help or links to the right bulb i need would be GREATLY appreciated


--------------------
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
-HST

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Re: need electrical help with 400w ballast [Re: sixletterscurvy]
    #11033947 -

i wouldnt put a 1000watt bulb in a 400watt ballest, that for sure...

just use the 400watt bulb... its MORE then enough for a single plant!

Edited by P-O (09/10/09 12:38 PM)

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Re: need electrical help with 400w ballast [Re: P-O]
    #11035071 -

Like the poster above mentioned don't put a 1000watt bulb in a 400watt ballast. It might fire up the light but it wont be operating efficiently and the ballast is not rated to operate a bulb like that anyway.

According to the link you gave the ballast is a Metal Halide and doesn't mention being able to run both MH and High Pressure Sodium bulbs, I would stick with a Metal Halide. Just because it says HID doesn't mean it can run both, HID just stands for High Intensity Discharge.


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My Ethnobotanical Growing TeksWhere to Start Flow Chart, QnA, and helpful links

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Re: need electrical help with 400w ballast [Re: karode13]
    #11037615 -

I knew the guy he borrowed it from was an idiot when he said it would work.

Thanks guys


--------------------
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
-HST

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Re: need electrical help with 400w ballast [Re: sixletterscurvy]
    #11038630 -

HPS and MH lamps will both work fine in your setup. They are both HID and are inter-changeable.

Only use the designated rating of lamp or LOWER. Higher Wattage lamps will burn out the ballast and cause a potential fire danger as the lamp tries to draw it's required current through a ballast that's only current rated for xxx Watts.

Edited by J.T (09/11/09 03:33 AM)

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Re: need electrical help with 400w ballast [Re: J.T]
    #11038663 -

Even though it is a HID it might not be able to run both. In the specifications it says "400W Pulse Start Metal Halide lamp provides over 6 footcandles of illumination at a 20 ft. mounting height". I would stick to that unless it says so otherwise. ~you could be right though~


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My Ethnobotanical Growing TeksWhere to Start Flow Chart, QnA, and helpful links

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Re: need electrical help with 400w ballast [Re: karode13]
    #11043432 -

so I can use a 350watt metal halide just fine then? it says "metalarc" though not metal halide but i think its the same thing..


--------------------
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
-HST

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Re: need electrical help with 400w ballast [Re: sixletterscurvy]
    #11043532 -

Hey Karode :smile:

Yeah the SON and MH run the same internal gear. I am an electrician and work with these all the time :smile: The street lights here are SON and we use the MH lamps in the same lanterns/housing depending on customers requirements.

Yeap you can use a 350W in a 400W lantern/housing :smile: Lamps and electrical gear only draw the current they need so you will be fine :smile: As my other post stated, a 1000W will try to draw the current it needs through all the internal gear which ISN'T rated for 1000W, so in the end it will burn out the gear creating a fire hazard.

Yeap, Metal Arc/Metal Halide are exactly the same. Go for it dude!
Hope this has helped a lot of people :smile:

BTW the Streetlights are exactly the same as grow lights, there is NO difference apart from the shape/sphysical size. At least here in NZ anyway.

I've saved a few people a fair amount of money by informing them of this.

Peace...

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Re: need electrical help with 400w ballast [Re: J.T]
    #11043921 -

Good advice JT, It's been years since I played around with grow lights and couldn't remember all the ins and outs.

I know who I will come to next time I have a sparky question to ask.:smile:


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My Ethnobotanical Growing TeksWhere to Start Flow Chart, QnA, and helpful links

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Re: need electrical help with 400w ballast [Re: karode13]
    #11046139 -

If you want cheap growlights (mostly hps), go around to sign companies and ask. They use them in everything and can afford to sell them off for extremely affordable prices.

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Re: need electrical help with 400w ballast [Re: Mankey]
    #11047454 -

thanks for the info guys. the street lights here have no housing and use the same kind of bulbs too. I'll put some pics up when its done running.

last question: the ballast needs the old electrical cord hookup because the power cord is severed. The heavy duty one he has is 125v (120 required) but only 13amps, where 15amps are required in the specs.

Does he need to buy a bigger cord that is rated at 15amps or more?


--------------------
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
-HST

Edited by sixletterscurvy (09/12/09 05:05 PM)

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Re: need electrical help with 400w ballast [Re: sixletterscurvy]
    #11048882 -

sixletterscurvy said:
as a long time user of this site i hope to get some good info, because a friend actually posted this on grasscity and got no help.

basically a friend got a 400watt HID lamp with a 1000watt bulb for free to flower a single large plant. This is a link to the exact light http://www.mcgillelectrical.com/CatalogProducts.asp?nProductsID=77

my question is: what types of bulbs can fit on this specific fixture? It says its HID, but does that mean any HID light thats 400watts will work? If he get a high pressure sodium 400watt bulb will that work? Or would he have to install an ignitor for the hps...he doesnt want to alter it because its borrowed.

and the guy he borrowed it from insists the 1000w bulb will work fine..

any help or links to the right bulb i need would be GREATLY appreciated


The 400w ballast can not run the 1000w lamp safely, it might light up, but it will be drawing way too much current for the ballast.

  The fixture you link to (I'm surprised this non-sponsor link is still up?) is for a high bay used for temporary lighting on construction sites.. I've wired similar fixtures.. they use an "exclusionary" socket which only permits the use of type O lamps.  Type O means the bottom electrode of the lamp is elongated to make contact with a recessed electrode inside the socket:



Which means you can't run any hps lamps with this socket.  Also



J.T said:
Hey Karode :smile:

Yeah the SON and MH run the same internal gear. I am an electrician and work with these all the time :smile: The street lights here are SON and we use the MH lamps in the same lanterns/housing depending on customers requirements.

Yeap you can use a 350W in a 400W lantern/housing :smile: Lamps and electrical gear only draw the current they need so you will be fine :smile: As my other post stated, a 1000W will try to draw the current it needs through all the internal gear which ISN'T rated for 1000W, so in the end it will burn out the gear creating a fire hazard.

Yeap, Metal Arc/Metal Halide are exactly the same. Go for it dude!
Hope this has helped a lot of people :smile:

BTW the Streetlights are exactly the same as grow lights, there is NO difference apart from the shape/sphysical size. At least here in NZ anyway.

I've saved a few people a fair amount of money by informing them of this.

Peace...


This is kinda true.. some pulse start metal halides ( like your fixture ) will run hps lamps because they incorporate an ignitor into their design..
HPS lamps require the use of an ignitor, but your standard MH fixture doesn't have an ignitor.

Here's a link that describes converting a HPS fixture to run a MH lamp by using a switch to remove the ignitor from the circuit. 
http://www.bcbudonline.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9957

So it seems you can easily convert from HPS to MH, but to go from MH to HPS you would need to add an ignitor.  This would void the UL listing blah blah blah.

they DO make conversion lamps to get HPS light from a MH fixture ( and vice versa ) but I'm not familiar with them.  Plus they won't have the type O base, so won't work in your light.

That fixture is also kinda ill-suited for growing plants.. there's no reflector, and you get more light if the lamp is oriented horizontally from some reason or another.. but if a purpose-built grow light isn't in your budget, and you're intent on using this fixture, please get a correct 400w type o mh lamp. 


sixletterscurvy said:
thanks for the info guys. the street lights here have no housing and use the same kind of bulbs too. I'll put some pics up when its done running.

last question: the ballast needs the old electrical cord hookup because the power cord is severed. The heavy duty one he has is 125v (120 required) but only 13amps, where 15amps are required in the specs.

Does he need to buy a bigger cord that is rated at 15amps or more?


At 120v a 400w ballast will draw around 4 amps.. these fixtures come with a 16/3 which is more than enough. Anything that size or larger will do.

When buying cord remember that the first number represents the wire size ( smaller number = larger wire diameter ) and the second number represents the number of wires in the cord.  So your 16/3 cord will come with a black, white, and green #16. 

This is in contrast to other cables, like romex, mc, uf, where the second number represents the number of CURRENT CARRYING conductors.  For example, 12-3 romex has black, red, white, and green wires.  The green is your ground wire and is not intended to carry current.


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Edited by runrun (09/12/09 10:26 PM)

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Re: need electrical help with 400w ballast [Re: runrun]
    #11048987 -

Its a 16 gauge so thanks, that saves some money.


--------------------
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
-HST

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Re: need electrical help with 400w ballast [Re: sixletterscurvy]
    #11050330 -

Hehe thanks Karode! :smile:

Woah! It seems [as I feared], that you guys in the US have different internal gear inside your lights.

In NZ we can interchange SON & MH either way not a problem.


Edited by J.T (09/13/09 04:27 AM)

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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