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Miller Urey. New analysis of old samples? How come I never heard of this?
    #10159816 -

How come I never heard of this?  For those not familiar with this experiment google millery-urey experiment and read as much as you like.  Basically they zapped simple molecules and saw which biological molecules formed with a view towards examining processes that may have given rise to life on earth.




Quote:
The Miller Volcanic Spark Discharge Experiment
Adam P. Johnson,1 H. James Cleaves,2 Jason P. Dworkin,3 Daniel P. Glavin,3 Antonio Lazcano,4 Jeffrey L. Bada5*

Miller's 1950s experiments used, besides the apparatus known in textbooks, one that generated a hot water mist in the spark flask, simulating a water vapor-rich volcanic eruption. We found the original extracts of this experiment in Miller's material and reanalyzed them. The volcanic apparatus produced a wider variety of amino acids than the classic one. Release of reduced gases in volcanic eruptions accompanied by lightning could have been common on the early Earth. Prebotic compounds synthesized in these environments could have locally accumulated, where they could have undergone further processing.




Wikipedia says:
Quote:
In 2008, a group of scientists examined 11 vials left over from Miller's experiments of the early 1950s. In addition to the classic experiment, reminiscent of Charles Darwin's envisioned "warm little pond", Miller had also performed more experiments, including one with conditions similar to those of volcanic eruptions. This experiment had a nozzle spraying a jet of steam at the spark discharge. By using high-performance liquid chromatography and mass spectrometry, the group found more organic molecules than Miller had. Interestingly, they found that the volcano-like experiment had produced the most organic molecules, 22 amino acids, 5 amines and many hydroxylated molecules, which could have been formed by hydroxyl radicals produced by the electrified steam. The group suggested that volcanic island systems became rich in organic molecules in this way, and that the presence of carbonyl sulfide there could have helped these molecules form peptides.[6][26]







Wow.  I guess my profs never bothered to let me know about this stuff.  Shows basic science  scientists don't care about the big picture I guess.


Anyways, thoughts?  I always thought these experiments were kind of overhyped especially on boards like this that talk about things like the origin of life.  These new findings, if wikipedia is to be believed, is quite a change from what everyone had thought the experiment produced so many years ago. 



I'll try and track down the whole paper tomorrow or something and upload it.  My school's journal services are screwed up beyond belief, but I'll gather my strength for the search tomorrow.  If anyone has a convieniant source, the cite is:  Johnson AP, Cleaves HJ, Dworkin JP, Glavin DP, Lazcano A, Bada JL (October 2008). "The Miller volcanic spark discharge experiment". Science 322 (5900): 404. doi:10.1126/science.1161527. PMID 18927386.

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Re: Miller Urey. New analysis of old samples? How come I never heard of this? [Re: johnm214]
    #10162242 -

You have presumably already downloaded it, so it is now struck from the (my) record

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Re: Miller Urey. New analysis of old samples? How come I never heard of this? [Re: johnm214]
    #10162472 -
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The article ^

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Re: Miller Urey. New analysis of old samples? How come I never heard of this? [Re: johnm214]
    #10162524 -

>Wow.  I guess my profs never bothered to let me know about this stuff.  Shows basic science  scientists don't care about the big picture I guess.

Quote:
Science 17 October 2008



More likely they're too busy marking papers to keep up to date with all the latest research. I saw that plenty of times in my undergrad years. It's a shame, but it doesn't necessarily mean they don't care, just that they don't have time.

Anyway. The paper doesn't mention where the carbon and nitrogen came from to produce the amines. Are we supposed to assume it came from the air?

Wait, nevermind. It's in the figure caption. Methane, ammonia, hydrogen gas, like a volcano.

:awesome:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Miller Urey. New analysis of old samples? How come I never heard of this? [Re: zouden]
    #10162793 -

> The paper doesn't mention where the carbon and nitrogen came from to produce the amines

If volcanoes were active, then CO2, CO, CH4, N2, and NH3 would have all be present as sources for carbon and nitrogen..

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Re: Miller Urey. New analysis of old samples? How come I never heard of this? [Re: Seuss]
    #10164958 -

YEah but he only used CH4, NH3 and H2. Though CO2 and N2 would have been present as well I guess.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Miller Urey. New analysis of old samples? How come I never heard of this? [Re: zouden]
    #10172295 -

Zouden:  yeah, I'm aware its new, that's my point.  Its new and I've had two semesters worth of biochem teachers who never bothered to tell us about the relativly major change in the results.



I always thought this was kind of a stupid "no shit" experiment that was hoisted up in freshman classes and in the popular media as some sort of fantastic discovery, when really it seems kinda obvious and very far from demonstrating the feasability of random chemical reactions producing needed chemistry for life.



The new results (still haven't read the paper yet) seem to be far more relevant.


Just so many classes start off with us worshipping Miller Urey for some stupid reason and yet I've not heard anything about this.



Annom and Chespirito:  Thanks :thumbup:

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