jivJaN said:

IMO.. Art cannot and must not be criticized.

I tend to believe that everything we see and experience seems to be downgraded and taken for granted precisely because of this judgmental approach.

I truly think that if we were to let go of our biases , and the need to evaluate ..
We would eventually realize how much every moment is a work of art.
And hopefully we would then try to relax.. and learn without using the hitting stick

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deCypher said:

jivJaN said:

IMO.. Art cannot and must not be criticized.

I tend to believe that everything we see and experience seems to be downgraded and taken for granted precisely because of this judgmental approach.

I truly think that if we were to let go of our biases , and the need to evaluate ..
We would eventually realize how much every moment is a work of art.
And hopefully we would then try to relax.. and learn without using the hitting stick

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I completely disagree.  Criticism spurs evolution, change, and prevents intellectual and emotional stagnation.  The artist whose art is being criticized might not always like the criticism, but we have rational faculties and the ability to discern that which pleases us from that which doesn't for a reason.

Perhaps the existence of the critic is like the existence of Satan in the Book of Job; a test of faith that in the end only strengthens the commitment of the believer/artist.

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You would completely disagree
j/k

Well.. i like to use examples..  (sometimes they suck)
I hope you wont hold it against me to use an example related to deCypher himself

Your drawing f.e. in one of your threads.
I liked it. I really liked it.
Why ? That would probably be a long , yet incomplete story.
See.. Art.. is something cannot really define.. or explain - whether we like the given piece or not.
It strikes you as an artist on a personal level, which  is almost psychedelic , spiritual in its nature.
The same way i would experience it..
I would have to delve deep into the roots of my mind and spirit to be able recognize why this piece of colors , shapes and patterns suit my personality and i would still be unable to accurately actualize my thoughts on it with words.
Just like a nice trip or  a spiritual experience.

To criticize such a thing.. would inevitably be agreeing that  a certain norm exists.
Like.. saying that certain colors dont match.
And this example would be ok... certain colors just create an unpleasant effect for the observer if they are combined.

So.. basically.. Art would then have to be likened to striking these patterns that we naturally enjoy.
Like fractals. If you use the fractal approach when drawing a tree.. it would make the drawing/ painting .. or what have you .. more pleasant for the eyes.. when you consider that the tree's you're used to seeing mechanically follow this pattern of growth.
Which is not to say.. that certain individuals do not appreciate discord.

Being critical about Art.. is almost the exact same.. as being critical to life.. and arguing that one way is "better" than the other.

Do you see where i make a connection ?

I do understand how criticism can spur change and progress..
But this approach would also be exclusive.
I used to be a basketball player. Some would argue that this sport is as mechanical and robotic as it gets..
I would beg to differ. The way i look at the game.. and the way i play it, is simply poetry in motion.
And whenever the coach would give guidance.. it would inevitably be one that would in his perception suit the whole of the team.
Whereas... i would always think that , even though the limitation would benefit the teams purpose at the given moment.. it would eventually stifle my own creativity and a very personal approach to progress and evolution of me as an individual player >> which in due time would actually benefit the team more IMO.
Kind of like the polarity issue often discussed.

We're basically dealing with the same concepts over and over again. Whatever we are debating.. it all boils down to the fact that all of us are simply introducing our own ideas and opinions.
Some will agree , some wont.. and some will stay neutral - maybe because they dont understand.. or simply dont care.
It is only logical , for lack of a better term , to notice the the obvious diversity.
And then to follow with tolerance instead of judgment.
Cause any other route.. leads to a very boring and non creative  like minded environment , which , as it seems to me , so many of us are trying overcome.
So then..

The criticism.. is being criticized.

As soon as i see a little loop like this ..
Everything is clear to me.

And my opinion is ,  that if criticism loops like that.. it is not a favorable way of thinking.
Nobody wants to go in circles.. and we all want variety and new cool things to experience.. all the time.
Which is not to say that we dont have a right to our likes and dislikes.. but giving a quasi objective value to anything .. especially artistic expression seems to be regressive in its nature , even though the goal , as you say can be thought to be quite different in its intent.

jivJaN said:

I used to be a basketball player. Some would argue that this sport is as mechanical and robotic as it gets..
I would beg to differ. The way i look at the game.. and the way i play it, is simply poetry in motion.
And whenever the coach would give guidance.. it would inevitably be one that would in his perception suit the whole of the team.
Whereas... i would always think that , even though the limitation would benefit the teams purpose at the given moment.. it would eventually stifle my own creativity and a very personal approach to progress and evolution of me as an individual player >> which in due time would actually benefit the team more IMO.

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jivJaN said:

Telling someone how to improve their technical skill in representing a face artistically..
Would be the same as saying - you have to follow the right hand path.

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jivJaN said:

Well..
All i can say is that I wouldn't want  the training.

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daytripper23 said:

So my question; how does the critic relate to art

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mrspirit2 said:

jivJaN said:

Well..
All i can say is that I wouldn't want  the training.

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Why not? Someone might be able to help you express what
you're trying to express..

I like when someone shows me an efficient tool, technique, or method to improve on my current tools, techniques, and methods.

When I color or do any art, I'm usually highly dissatisfied with it because it is not done to my tastes
(huge perfectionist, get very frustrated and usually throw out all of my work).
I lack a knowledge of brush types, strokes, paint types, consistencies, and many other art mediums.
Having someone point out helpful information
can be very valuable to the development of your own
individual experience, art or not.

Such as, to get this type of texture, use THIS brush.

Criticism can really help you improve!

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Yeah.. well you used an example that might even be beneficial.
Telling someone which kind of brush is more suitable -  is different than saying.. you have to draw/paint it like this or that, fix the tree.. and the woman's nose is too big.
Still..
I wouldn't want the advice.
If i am passionate enough about something i will figure it out on my own.

Another point i would like to make >> perhaps you are criticizing yourself too much.

I find it absurd to strive for perfection in art.
There is no "perfect painting"... no perfect work of art.
Perfection in general only exist subjectively.. and that's only until you run into something better.
So.. as long as your striving for such a thing.. you will inevitably be trying to reach a certain expectation.. or to fulfill a certain norm and that stifles creativity IMO.


You're not drawing blueprints for a 40 story building. Let it be sloppy..
Let it be bent and fucked sideways 

Usually.. people will have this idea in their mind how the given painting/drawing should look like.
And then the hands and brush bring that idea to life. So maybe.. trying to perfect that could be a good thing.
But i would still do it on my own.
And.. generally i don't really take that route.
Usually ,when i start.. i don't even know what its gonna be.